Senate Passes Bailout

[Koga No Goshi]

Actually I think Nadar wants to disrupt the political process and destroy the Democratic Party for a Green Party of some type.

Fact remains he does very little besides engender bitterness towards third parties. He is doing nothing in terms of successfully moving a third party towards reality.

LOL - try using Dodd for a balance, you will find it beneficial. But then there is Clinton's secert meetings on finicial matters and backroom deals. Lots of exambles to look for when one wants to provide a balance arguement. Lots of information is coming available about the total corruption of not only the Bush Adminstration but our whole political process involving both parties.

Agreed on the last statement, but the last 8 years have been a fairly open in-bed embrace of lobbyists and special interests. I feel no particular need to go back 9-16 years ago and provide counterbalances when talking about things that have happened in the last few years. Nor do I espouse the idea of "everything is tit for tat, every party has done absolutely everything just as bad in every regard." Dems have screwed some stuff up, and are in bed with some lobbyists. Same in reverse for Reps. Nevertheless I don't think we've ever seen in our lifetimes such an open eager hopping into bed naked and flopping with big corporate interests that we've seen in the last 8 years. I'm sure you could dig up some really bad Dem admin 75 or 100 years ago but I wouldn't see that as a justification of the last 8 years.

[Productivity]

Playing the "pin the positive assertion on the other guy" game is as old as forums. I'm not going to be the only one bending over backwards to find sources that even the most craven right-wing ideologues will deem "acceptable", when people only demand sources when they're out of hot air to blow anyway, and never seem to change their viewpoint even when given sources. If someone wants a formal debate then announce one, don't selectively demand proof only of people you don't like, when you aren't going to give the sources any weight anyhow if they disagree with your viewpoints.

As a relatively quiet reader of this forum, I've seen you trot this or similar lines out many times over the last few days. It's getting seriously boring to keep reading it - the request for moderate sources is not unreasonable. You have every right to question the other side on the same whenever they throw up questionable sources - however crying that you're having to satisfy extreme right idealogues is simply a mischaracterisation of the situation. I've seen you throw up sources that I wouldn't even bother reading to the end they're so biased and I'm soundly sitting in the leftwing camp (albeit with a few leanings to the right).

So I request as a fellow member and nothing more of this site, can you please drop this entirely obstructionist refusal to provide reasonable backup to claims. To continue in this way degenerates the level of debate on this forum and simply makes it frustrating to read. The rest of this forum, left, right, centre, upside and down has managed to work for all the time I've been reading it without every political thread they are being involved in degenerating into an exercise in abuse re. sources, I don't see why you can't.

[Koga No Goshi]

As a relatively quiet reader of this forum, I've seen you trot this or similar lines out many times over the last few days. It's getting seriously boring to keep reading it - the request for moderate sources is not unreasonable. You have every right to question the other side on the same whenever they throw up questionable sources - however crying that you're having to satisfy extreme right idealogues is simply a mischaracterisation of the situation. I've seen you throw up sources that I wouldn't even bother reading to the end they're so biased and I'm soundly sitting in the leftwing camp (albeit with a few leanings to the right).

So I request as a fellow member and nothing more of this site, can you please drop this entirely obstructionist refusal to provide reasonable backup to claims. To continue in this way degenerates the level of debate on this forum and simply makes it frustrating to read. The rest of this forum, left, right, centre, upside and down has managed to work for all the time I've been reading it without every political thread they are being involved in degenerating into an exercise in abuse re. sources, I don't see why you can't.

A) Please do not read anything that bores you.

B) I have attempted to source things, but even sources like MSNBC or Rolling Stone get called "liberal"-- in fact, I do not at this point even know what sources are considered "moderate." People laugh at Wikipedia and say it's "full of problems." So, if you would like to suggest some "moderate" sources that everyone would agree on, do so. Instead of just complaining that there is not enough sourcing when half the discussions around here are people just making sarcastic snipes at everyone else's source credibility. That goes for everyone on this topic. I could put up some BBC stuff too but honestly what's the point, I get the impression anything but Fox is considered too leftie for some people.

[KukriKhan]

Well, we certainly have repeated (org) history, in not resolving the "source debate". Maybe next time.

More importantly, "Senate Passes Bailout", the original topic, has 'faded to black' in terms of discussion.

Therefore, we thank all for their contributions, and close the topic.