PIRATES off the starboard bow!

[ljperreira]

I have a confession to make. I like pirates. I like pirates a lot.

Do you like rapists, gang members, scam artists, thieves, and murderers? Are you fond of hard core maximum security prison inmates? No? Well, the only difference is that "Pirates" sail on ships. On my first deployment to Asia as a U.S. Marine I was a part of TRAP team (tactical recovery of aircraft and personnel) and we trained to retake ships hijacked by pirates over near Indonesia (along with Marine Force Recon and Navy Seals), so the problem has never really gone away. Ask a modern merchant mariner who's been hijacked by modern pirates how cool and fun loving those guys really are. I don't think he'll be telling you an amusing story of a guy named Jack Sparrow or Long John Silver.......sorry if I'm being too much of a realist.

[Pinxit]

Do you like rapists, gang members, scam artists, thieves, and murderers? Are you fond of hard core maximum security prison inmates? No? Well, the only difference is that "Pirates" sail on ships. On my first deployment to Asia as a U.S. Marine I was a part of TRAP team (tactical recovery of aircraft and personnel) and we trained to retake ships hijacked by pirates over near Indonesia (along with Marine Force Recon and Navy Seals), so the problem has never really gone away. Ask a modern merchant mariner who's been hijacked by modern pirates how cool and fun loving those guys really are. I don't think he'll be telling you an amusing story of a guy named Jack Sparrow or Long John Silver.......sorry if I'm being too much of a realist.

Yes. Todays pirates are completely nuts. I mean, they dont even use large cool wooden ships with cannons and flags and drink whiskey and have wooden legs and funny hooks on their hands and trousers made out of jam (thank you Izzard). Futhermore, they dont live in huge boats all the time spending their loot on whores and booze and navigating the seven seas. Todays pirates lives in caves on dry land most of the time and every once in a while takes a ride in a speedboat.

Todays pirates are not pirates, they are criminals with speedboats and lots of guns. They need to at least steal a frigate or an air craft carrier to use as a vessel and raise the jolly jumper before they can call themselves pirates. Those speedboats are an insult to real pirates.

[Knight of the Rose]

Hmm, in respect to the OP, think about this: In an age where violence and insecurity is a given at all times, where economic growth is erratic and all men are goverend by institutions who are neither democratic nor transparant. It is an age where social mobility through hard work and talent is very restricted. Human rights were as far away as the moon.
In this frame, taking to the high seas, either as a privateer or as an adventurer could prove one of very few ways to make a fortune, and to progress socially. On the fringes of the budding nation states there were a use for men who would rise up and take tremendous risks. In the absence of state control, there were also those who abandoned all respect for their fellow humans and became murderous pirates.
But many, maybe even most, of those who went on a ship, engaged in combat and went home with the booty taken from someone the authorities told you were the enemy, would do so only once or twice, before settling in as a farmer or a journeyman.

So, I think that you can be facinated by the concept, without supporting rape and murder. "Plunder" is always in the eyes of the beholder.

/KotR

[ljperreira]

So, I think that you can be facinated by the concept, without supporting rape and murder. "Plunder" is always in the eyes of the beholder.

/KotR

Really, so if you show up at home and everything of value is missing you would say "Oh thats all right, the poor guy is just trying to make a living".
Or, you are at the shopping mall and someone sticks a gun in your face and demands your car or your life, you would'nt mind because "hey, the guy just can't be bothered to get a real job, no big deal". By the way, you cant be fascinated by piracy and leave out rape and murder. Its all part of the package (if youre being realistic, forget about the stories you see on TV).


[No swearing please. -- Martok]

[Pinxit]

Really, so if you show up at home and everything of value is missing you would say "Oh thats all right, the poor guy is just trying to make a living".
Or, you are at the shopping mall and someone sticks a gun in your face and demands your car or your life, you would'nt mind because "hey, the guy just can't be bothered to get a real job, no big deal". By the way, you cant be fascinated by piracy and leave out rape and murder. Its all part of the package (if youre being realistic, forget about the bullshite stories you see on TV).

You seem to be missing the part "its in the eyes of the beholder". Anyway:

Who says someone cant be fascinated by what appears to be evil? We, every single one of us at Total War Org, are most likely very fascinated about war. I know that I am. Most likely so are you. And war also comes in a package: I cant be fascinated by war without leaving out mutilated bodies, murders, rapes, burning villages, murdered children, etc. According to you that is. Or maybe, just maybe, a person can be fascinated about something without actually believing that what fascinates him/her is morally right

[Nelson]

Guys, this is not the place for a debate over morals.

Advocating a game feature does not amount to support for any past or current real life activity. So let’s try to keep things here game related, shall we?

[Knight of the Rose]

I'll just explain myself for the record: When I said eye of the beholder, I hinted to the fact that property rights, especially international ones, were a bit loose in the period in question. The spanish were furious with the english, because the english supported piracy. I also made the point that "police" or "army/navy" just wasn't there in the caribbian, and so nation states needed something else. I don't think that 18th century people were without morals, but I think the had a somewhat different set.

End of that part of the topic

[ljperreira]

You seem to be missing the part "its in the eyes of the beholder". Anyway:

Who says someone cant be fascinated by what appears to be evil? We, every single one of us at Total War Org, are most likely very fascinated about war. I know that I am. Most likely so are you. And war also comes in a package: I cant be fascinated by war without leaving out mutilated bodies, murders, rapes, burning villages, murdered children, etc. According to you that is. Or maybe, just maybe, a person can be fascinated about something without actually believing that what fascinates him/her is morally right

Quite right....I totally agree, especially since I was in the Marines Id be lying if I said blowing stuff up and sending rounds down range didn't fascinate me. I wasnt trying to say you cant like pirates, or what not, what Im saying is due to fictional literature and Hollywood, Pirates are seen by children (and many adults) as fun loving adventurers, and not the blood thirsty thieves that they really were (and are).

Anyways, for Nelson's sanity, I will qualify this post by saying that Pirates on ETW would probably classify as rebels in the game (as someone has already mentioned). But it still would be cool to see the pirate flag flying over a few ships, primarily so I can sink the h*ll out of them or maybe send in my Marines to take them out.

[Pinxit]

Quite right....I totally agree, especially since I was in the Marines Id be lying if I said blowing stuff up and sending rounds down range didn't fascinate me. I wasnt trying to say you cant like pirates, or what not, what Im saying is due to fictional literature and Hollywood, Pirates are seen by children (and many adults) as fun loving adventurers, and not the blood thirsty thieves that they really were (and are).

Well... yes. About Hollywood. Dont even go there. This is one of the main reasons why I dont see Hollywood movies anymore. Especially not the ones with basis in history. Just look what the US did to World War 2 movies. Its always the same. Children grow up believing that the US fought Nazi-Germany on their own. I really dislike when Hollywood must glorify everything, even when the movie is supposed to be realistic it ends up glorified.

Although, thats another subject so lets all shut the hell up about this