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Who would have thought that our government would abuse limitless powers of surveillance?
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This is just lovely:
But remember kids, if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about, and just to prove this we're going to install a Federal monitor in everybody's bathroom.
Despite pledges by President George W. Bush and American intelligence officials to the contrary, hundreds of US citizens overseas have been eavesdropped on as they called friends and family back home, according to two former military intercept operators who worked at the giant National Security Agency (NSA) center in Fort Gordon, Georgia. [...]
"These were just really everyday, average, ordinary Americans who happened to be in the Middle East, in our area of intercept and happened to be making these phone calls on satellite phones," said Adrienne Kinne, a 31-year old US Army Reserves Arab linguist assigned to a special military program at the NSA's Back Hall at Fort Gordon from November 2001 to 2003.
Kinne described the contents of the calls as "personal, private things with Americans who are not in any way, shape or form associated with anything to do with terrorism."
She said US military officers, American journalists and American aid workers were routinely intercepted and "collected on" as they called their offices or homes in the United States. [...]
The accounts of the two former intercept operators, who have never met and did not know of the other's allegations, provide the first inside look at the day to day operations of the huge and controversial US terrorist surveillance program.
"There is a constant check to make sure that our civil liberties of our citizens are treated with respect," said President Bush at a news conference this past February.
But the accounts of the two whistleblowers, which could not be independently corroborated, raise serious questions about how much respect is accorded those Americans whose conversations are intercepted in the name of fighting terrorism.
"These were just really everyday, average, ordinary Americans who happened to be in the Middle East, in our area of intercept and happened to be making these phone calls on satellite phones," said Adrienne Kinne, a 31-year old US Army Reserves Arab linguist assigned to a special military program at the NSA's Back Hall at Fort Gordon from November 2001 to 2003.
Kinne described the contents of the calls as "personal, private things with Americans who are not in any way, shape or form associated with anything to do with terrorism."
She said US military officers, American journalists and American aid workers were routinely intercepted and "collected on" as they called their offices or homes in the United States. [...]
The accounts of the two former intercept operators, who have never met and did not know of the other's allegations, provide the first inside look at the day to day operations of the huge and controversial US terrorist surveillance program.
"There is a constant check to make sure that our civil liberties of our citizens are treated with respect," said President Bush at a news conference this past February.
But the accounts of the two whistleblowers, which could not be independently corroborated, raise serious questions about how much respect is accorded those Americans whose conversations are intercepted in the name of fighting terrorism.
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This is just lovely:
One whistleblower said that NSA employees would entertain themselves listening to "phone sex" and "pillow talk." But I am sure this was all done to protect us from the terrorists.
But remember kids, if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about, and just to prove this we're going to install a Federal monitor in everybody's bathroom.
Well it is sick. Or wait this is the Bush way of doing things. Well sick or Bush is all the same.
BTW Palin loves it too to abuse power. Guess that's why she loves the great leader Bush soo much.
I wonder that any Republican with intact ethics and some intellectual capacities can support either. But nowaday Republican, ethics and intellect are Oxymorons.
P.S: After posting this I read this piece about how the Rep. managed to alienate the educated class.
BTW Palin loves it too to abuse power. Guess that's why she loves the great leader Bush soo much.
I wonder that any Republican with intact ethics and some intellectual capacities can support either. But nowaday Republican, ethics and intellect are Oxymorons.
P.S: After posting this I read this piece about how the Rep. managed to alienate the educated class.
Originally Posted by Oleander Ardens:
But nowaday Republican, ethics and intellect are Oxymorons.
I would prefer it that patrons do not use insulting generalisations that amount to personal attacks on other members. This tends to result in tit-for-tat flame wars.But nowaday Republican, ethics and intellect are Oxymorons.
There are some very ethical and intelligent members of this forum that happen to have Republican sympathies.
Thank you kindly.
Too late for this now, since the Democratic Congress caved and passed the new FISA law. Gutless cowards.
At some point, these powers are going to be used politically. Watergate II, electronic bug-aloo!
At some point, these powers are going to be used politically. Watergate II, electronic bug-aloo!
The better to monitor President Obama's political enemies.
Swedish government wanted a new law to for our version of NSA to be able to intercept calls.
However, the people kind of were against it, and they couldn't pass the law (huge demontrations and stuff).
The swedes behind the law had the same arguments as Bush, that this in no way would have anything to do with normal calls...
I dontt hink the swedish government can handle it better than the US, so I am glad they didnt get to pass it.
Think the US will react to this?
However, the people kind of were against it, and they couldn't pass the law (huge demontrations and stuff).
The swedes behind the law had the same arguments as Bush, that this in no way would have anything to do with normal calls...
I dontt hink the swedish government can handle it better than the US, so I am glad they didnt get to pass it.
Think the US will react to this?
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV:
Swedish government wanted a new law to for our version of NSA to be able to intercept calls.
However, the people kind of were against it, and they couldn't pass the law (huge demontrations and stuff).
The swedes behind the law had the same arguments as Bush, that this in no way would have anything to do with normal calls...
I dontt hink the swedish government can handle it better than the US, so I am glad they didnt get to pass it.
Think the US will react to this?
Unfortunately the US government doesn't listen to its people. You can do that when 10 guys provide 99% of your fundingSwedish government wanted a new law to for our version of NSA to be able to intercept calls.
However, the people kind of were against it, and they couldn't pass the law (huge demontrations and stuff).
The swedes behind the law had the same arguments as Bush, that this in no way would have anything to do with normal calls...
I dontt hink the swedish government can handle it better than the US, so I am glad they didnt get to pass it.
Think the US will react to this?
Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost:
I would prefer it that patrons do not use insulting generalisations that amount to personal attacks on other members. This tends to result in tit-for-tat flame wars.
There are some very ethical and intelligent members of this forum that happen to have Republican sympathies.
Thank you kindly.
Thanks for the correction. I intended to say "governing" Republicans and ethics and "governing" Republicans and intellect are Oxymorons. I would prefer it that patrons do not use insulting generalisations that amount to personal attacks on other members. This tends to result in tit-for-tat flame wars.
There are some very ethical and intelligent members of this forum that happen to have Republican sympathies.
Thank you kindly.
Originally Posted by Oleander Ardens:
Well it is sick. Or wait this is the Bush way of doing things. Well sick or Bush is all the same.
BTW Palin loves it too to abuse power. Guess that's why she loves the great leader Bush soo much.
I wonder that any Republican with intact ethics and some intellectual capacities can support either. But nowaday Republican, ethics and intellect are Oxymorons.
P.S: After posting this I read this piece about how the Rep. managed to alienate the educated class.
No, its the Democratic Congress's way of doing things as well. Those cowards passed the law.Well it is sick. Or wait this is the Bush way of doing things. Well sick or Bush is all the same.
BTW Palin loves it too to abuse power. Guess that's why she loves the great leader Bush soo much.
I wonder that any Republican with intact ethics and some intellectual capacities can support either. But nowaday Republican, ethics and intellect are Oxymorons.
P.S: After posting this I read this piece about how the Rep. managed to alienate the educated class.
This is why we should vote Libertarian or Constitutional party.
Sorry, but I don't completely trust the NYT. Nor do I trust Police Department internal investigations.
CR
Originally Posted by Strike For The South:
Unfortunately the US government doesn't listen to its people. You can do that when 10 guys provide 99% of your funding
I think a better system is that the state allocates funds for political parties, and that they are thereafter forbidden to use more than this amount.Unfortunately the US government doesn't listen to its people. You can do that when 10 guys provide 99% of your funding
It should be about the issues, not funding, imho.
Originally Posted by Oleander Ardens:
Thanks for the correction. I intended to say "governing" Republicans and ethics and "governing" Republicans and intellect are Oxymorons.
Still insulting.Thanks for the correction. I intended to say "governing" Republicans and ethics and "governing" Republicans and intellect are Oxymorons.
Not really oxymoronic either, since neither word pairing is a typical phrase or title. People have jibed about the oxymoronic quality of "Military Intelligence" or "Jumbo Shrimp" for a long time now, but you are trying to force the word pairings.
"Republican Ethicist" and "Republican Intellectual" would be more in line with the viscious point you are trying to make.
Then again, maybe I am incorrect. Since I've voted GOP most of my life, I'm probably too
dumb to understand your point -- or maybe too busy with my "who do we subjugate next" committee work.
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh:
Since I've voted GOP most of my life, I'm probably too dumb to understand your point -- or maybe too busy with my "who do we subjugate next" committee work.
See, if you weren't such a dummy you'd know that it's "whom do we subjugate next."Since I've voted GOP most of my life, I'm probably too
dumb to understand your point -- or maybe too busy with my "who do we subjugate next" committee work.Another issue the democrats promised to address but capitulated on. What have they done with their two years besides give Barney Frank lots of power.
Originally Posted by Lemur:
See, if you weren't such a dummy you'd know that it's "whom do we subjugate next."
Which vaults grammar-nazis to the top of the list... See, if you weren't such a dummy you'd know that it's "whom do we subjugate next."
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger:
Another issue the democrats promised to address but capitulated on. What have they done with their two years besides give Barney Frank lots of power.
You first sentence ends in a preposition, and your second one erroneously concludes with a period instead of a question mark, even though you're clearly posing an interrogative.Another issue the democrats promised to address but capitulated on. What have they done with their two years besides give Barney Frank lots of power.
I can't work under these conditions, with these barbarians ...
Originally Posted by Lemur:
You first sentence ends in a preposition, and your second one erroneously concludes with a period instead of a question mark, even though you're clearly posing an interrogative.
I can't work under these conditions, with these barbarians ...
I do apologize, posting while taking notes can end up pretty sloppy.You first sentence ends in a preposition, and your second one erroneously concludes with a period instead of a question mark, even though you're clearly posing an interrogative.
I can't work under these conditions, with these barbarians ...
You'd think these surveillance folks would spell/grammar check for you whilest reading your posts. What the heck are we paying them for?
Originally Posted by Gregoshi:
You'd think these surveillance folks would spell/grammar check for you whilest reading your posts. What the heck are we paying them for?
This, my friend, was the best post I've seen in years.You'd think these surveillance folks would spell/grammar check for you whilest reading your posts. What the heck are we paying them for?
Cheers!
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger:
Another issue the democrats promised to address but capitulated on. What have they done with their two years besides give Barney Frank lots of power.
Hehe, 2 years of Dems in Congress didn't undue roughly 30 years of Reaganomic trickle down and deregulation. The shock! The horror! Another issue the democrats promised to address but capitulated on. What have they done with their two years besides give Barney Frank lots of power.
::ANGERMAN::Originally Posted by Koga No Goshi:
Hehe, 2 years of Dems in Congress didn't undue roughly 30 years of Reaganomic trickle down and deregulation. The shock! The horror! ::ANGERMAN::
However this was one area of the law that the Democratic controlled congress could of easily done.Hehe, 2 years of Dems in Congress didn't undue roughly 30 years of Reaganomic trickle down and deregulation. The shock! The horror!
::ANGERMAN::So are you attempting to justify this failure of the Democratic controlled congress with the 30 years of Reaganomic trickle down and deregulation that you feel is a big failure?
Originally Posted by Koga No Goshi:
Hehe, 2 years of Dems in Congress didn't undue roughly 30 years of Reaganomic trickle down and deregulation. The shock! The horror! ::ANGERMAN::
I wasn't aware that the republicans had control of congress for the last 30 years.Hehe, 2 years of Dems in Congress didn't undue roughly 30 years of Reaganomic trickle down and deregulation. The shock! The horror!
::ANGERMAN::More blame game. What a shocker.
We have a civil rights crisis, and each side is so busy pointing fingers we don't even have time to even lament the problem, let alone discuss what should be done about it. Congratz all.
Besides Greg, of course, who manages to make me smile even whilst being furious.
blame game. What a shocker. We have a civil rights crisis, and each side is so busy pointing fingers we don't even have time to even lament the problem, let alone discuss what should be done about it. Congratz all.
Besides Greg, of course, who manages to make me smile even whilst being furious.
I love how a thread titled "U.S Gov Abused Blank check powers" turned partisan instantly. It's us vs the politicians on this one, everyone in this thread is on the same side...
Originally Posted by Koga No Goshi:
Hehe, 2 years of Dems in Congress didn't undue roughly 30 years of Reaganomic trickle down and deregulation. The shock! The horror! ::ANGERMAN::
Curse those unregulated truck shipping firms!Hehe, 2 years of Dems in Congress didn't undue roughly 30 years of Reaganomic trickle down and deregulation. The shock! The horror!
::ANGERMAN::Originally Posted by :
I love how a thread titled "U.S Gov Abused Blank check powers" turned partisan instantly. It's us vs the politicians on this one, everyone in this thread is on the same side...
So true. Politicians of both parties almost always love to have more power. They just go through it via different means.I love how a thread titled "U.S Gov Abused Blank check powers" turned partisan instantly. It's us vs the politicians on this one, everyone in this thread is on the same side...
CR
So wait, Americans who were in the Middle East talking on satellite phones are surprised/shocked to learn that they were being listened in on? Being DOD sat phones makes it even better.
Here's another newsflash- cell phones are also easily eavesdropped on and trackable! Shock!
Should the government be wasting it's time listening in on personal conversations of it's own personnel? No. But we're talking about government- wasting resources and invading your privacy is what it does best.
Here's another newsflash- cell phones are also easily eavesdropped on and trackable! Shock!
Should the government be wasting it's time listening in on personal conversations of it's own personnel? No. But we're talking about government- wasting resources and invading your privacy is what it does best.
Originally Posted by Xiahou:
So wait, Americans who were in the Middle East talking on satellite phones are surprised/shocked to learn that they were being listened in on? Being DOD sat phones makes it even better.
Here's another newsflash- cell phones are also easily eavesdropped on and trackable! Shock!
Should the government be wasting it's time listening in on personal conversations of it's own personnel? No. But we're talking about government- wasting resources and invading your privacy is what it does best.
Right- so its better to just pass an invasion of privacy as "something it does best" and move on, rather than proposing any change to it? Hey, taxing is what the government does best too, should we let them tax however much they want? So wait, Americans who were in the Middle East talking on satellite phones are surprised/shocked to learn that they were being listened in on? Being DOD sat phones makes it even better.
Here's another newsflash- cell phones are also easily eavesdropped on and trackable! Shock!
Should the government be wasting it's time listening in on personal conversations of it's own personnel? No. But we're talking about government- wasting resources and invading your privacy is what it does best.
Originally Posted by Koga No Goshi:
Hehe, 2 years of Dems in Congress didn't undue roughly 30 years of Reaganomic trickle down and deregulation. The shock! The horror! ::ANGERMAN::
What the Hehe, 2 years of Dems in Congress didn't undue roughly 30 years of Reaganomic trickle down and deregulation. The shock! The horror!
::ANGERMAN:: is this supposed to mean?!? You are aware of the 2008 amendment to FISA, right?On this bill, the Democrat-controlled Congress (check the date, the Democrats actually had majorities in both houses, plus a vast public disgust regarding the Bushies, shock/horror!) caved into the wishes of the administration, violating their duties under the Constitution and granting the executive power it does not legally have. As I said in my previous post, gutless cowards. What was the problem with (in practice, rubber-stamp) FISA court oversight? With this amendment, there is no accountability for the crimes committed by both the telco companies and the federal government. We have no true knowledge of what this surveillance covers, for all we know they tapped Democratic campaigns and congressional staff. Probably not, but nobody knows, and that is where oversight is critical. Pelosi is worthless as House Speaker, they originally rejected the bill but she caved like I knew she would. As soon as she said impeachment was off the table, Bush/Cheney knew they owned her.
And for some reason people wonder why Congress' approval ratings are lower than Bush's. Even with a mandate from the 2006 election, they do nothing.
Don't even try to pass this one off on the GOP, the Democrats failed big time here.Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro:
I love how a thread titled "U.S Gov Abused Blank check powers" turned partisan instantly.
It's less than 30 days from a Presidential election, so everybody's got their fisticuffs ready. I wouldn't worry about it overmuch, same thing happened in here four years ago. Everybody calms down once the thing is decided.I love how a thread titled "U.S Gov Abused Blank check powers" turned partisan instantly.
Originally Posted by :
And for some reason people wonder why Congress' approval ratings are lower than Bush's. Even with a mandate from the 2006 election, they do nothing. Don't even try to pass this one off on the GOP, the Democrats failed big time here.
You guys keep lobbing this stat around. Congress is pretty much always unpopular. The rating is not so low just or only because Dems took over two years ago. It's a cumulative disgust after 8 years of policies and laws they don't like. Most of which we have your party to thank for.And for some reason people wonder why Congress' approval ratings are lower than Bush's. Even with a mandate from the 2006 election, they do nothing.
Don't even try to pass this one off on the GOP, the Democrats failed big time here.Originally Posted by Koga No Goshi:
You guys keep lobbing this stat around. Congress is pretty much always unpopular. The rating is not so low just or only because Dems took over two years ago. It's a cumulative disgust after 8 years of policies and laws they don't like. Most of which we haveyour party both parties to thank for.
Correct for actually factual accuracy on who is to blameYou guys keep lobbing this stat around. Congress is pretty much always unpopular. The rating is not so low just or only because Dems took over two years ago. It's a cumulative disgust after 8 years of policies and laws they don't like. Most of which we have
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