Jorg Haider is Dead

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

People should check out Haider's policies on the Wiki page for the Austrian election. They're really not that far-right, whether you agree with him or not.

[Fragony]

I will never agree with Haiders ideology but painting him as Nazi goes far to far.

Not if you make an effort out of dragging them in it isn't, perfectly acceptable to hold that against him. Nazi's are scum, they aren't even right they believe in strong government, they are racist totalitarian idiots that is all. The real right is about equality, screw nazi's and anything that comes even remotily close to being close.

[Meneldil]

Who is the leader of the austian communist party?

And your point is ?

an attitude, that if prevalent among the EU quangocrats, that is another reason why i want the
UK to have as little to do with the EU as possible.

/sadface, we will miss UK so much. Oh wait, UK will never leave EU anyway.

that defies belief!
how was the election of haider anything other than democratic?

You're off the point. None said Haider wasn't elected democratically (but then, may I remind you that a lot of :flower: were elected democratically).

What you having a hard time to understand is that Jorg Haider was out of the political spectrum on which are built the basis of an European Community. Thus, the EU as a political entity was perfectly entitled in boycotting him.

Mind you, I can understand all the fuss about the will of the sovereign people of Austria. But if you still believe in 'the will of the people' than I recommend you a reality check.

A lot of countries (including the US) use boycott quite commonly against democratic governments. Why does it suddenly become an issue when the EU boycott a far-right party led by a freak ?

Seriosly people, the person in question is dead. Show some respect.

That whole 'You Shall Not Say Bad Things About That Guy Because He's Dead' is probably the worst part of the PC crap that have been enforced over the western world in the last decades.
The guy lost all respect I could have had for him when he decided to drive while intoxicated.

[Husar]

That whole 'You Shall Not Say Bad Things About That Guy Because He's Dead' is probably the worst part of the PC crap that have been enforced over the western world in the last decades.

I don't always understand it either, maybe I should talk more about the positive sides of Saddam and Vlad the impaler instead of mentioning their cruel aspects all the time, I mean that's pretty disrespectful of such great politicians who did a lot of good to themselves.

[Kadagar_AV]

Vlad the impaler wasnt that bad... He got a bad name in the west, indeed... But newer (less anti-russ) scientific studies has showed that he was more of a folkhero than a villain...

If you have the time, read up on him. He is a quite fascinating character:)

[Louis VI the Fat]

As an Austrian I take offence to this thread.

Seriosly people, the person in question is dead. Show some respect.

I will gladly further a discussion about Haider with other Austrians who actually know something about him. But this non-Austrian trashtalk about a dead person who spent much of his life fighting for what he believed in is.... tasteless.

He lived and loved just like you or anyone else.

So please, a little respect in this thread would be in order.


Just my thoughts on the subject.

Piety and respect, Kadagar? Where's Austria's respect?

Unlike Haider, the victims of WWII are not yet all dead and buried. And yet Austria insists Europe should've simply accepted a nazi provocateur in Austria's government? And pretend as if nothing is going on? As if nothing ever happened? We should just smile and have our picture taken with an Austrian anti-semitic nazi sympathiser? One who lives in a 16.5 million house that his nazi family aquired under controversial circumstances from a fleeing Jew in 1941? And laugh along when Haider makes another one of his anti-Semitic 'jokes'?

Yes, Haider was popular, and did a lot for the self-esteem of some Austrians ('boy, did we show those pesky Europeans good! Aren't we a cool independent lot!')

Here's what: maybe we actually do know something about Haider. Maybe there is a majority of Austrians too who know Haider very well. And maybe they think he is a painful embarrassment to Austria.

I, too, shall end my post the Austrian flag, out of respect for democratic Austria.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.

Seriosly people, the person in question is dead. Show some respect.

So are Enver Paşa, Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mustafa Kemal, Pol Pot etc. Whether Haider managed to become one of those in his lifetime doesn't matter. They all get equal respect from me.
.

[Fragony]

Unlike Haider, the victims of WWII are not yet all dead and buried. And yet Austria insists Europe should've simply accepted a nazi provocateur in Austria's government? And pretend as if nothing is going on? As if nothing ever happened? We should just smile and have our picture taken with an Austrian anti-semitic nazi sympathiser? One who lives in a 16.5 million house that his nazi family aquired under controversial circumstances from a fleeing Jew in 1941? And laugh along when Haider makes another one of his anti-Semitic 'jokes'?

Well yes.

[Tribesman]

Seriosly people, the person in question is dead. Show some respect.

Bollox .
Respect = not going to the funeral and then slagging them off in front of the family at the graveside .

[Ronin]

A more serious question raises it´s head...

are all right-wing homophobes secretly butt-pirates???

Guardian Article - Jörg Haider's successor claims they where gay lovers


come on......self-hating secret gays are so XX century.....just come out guys....you´ll be happier and we´ll be spared the silly right wing rhetoric.

[Oleander Ardens]

Franky I don't know nor I care if Haider was gay.

What is surprising, or what isn't, is that a prominent politician on the far right in a German speaking area is for some basically a Nazi under cover. People saying worse in other languages are just on the far right. It is not just offending to victims that a person says silly things about a terrible regime, it is also offending to the victims of the Nazi regime when the term "Nazi" gets thrown around like that.

[Louis VI the Fat]

No it isn't Oleander. Haider is more interesting than a simple nazi, yes. A term which does not fully describe the man and his policies. And indeed, randomly calling everybody a nazi diminishes the term.

An insult to Haider, though, it is not. And even if we can't speak for the dead, certainly, few WWII vivtims think it is an insult to call a nazi a man who meets repeatedly with SS veteran groups, in a house stolen from a fleeing Jew, and praises them as honourable men in between making anti-Semitic remarks.
Outside of Austria, the fabulous world of the internet and the mental realm of socially isolated semi-intellectuals with twisted sympathies, few think it is far fetched to heap scorn at Haider for his nazi provocations.

~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+

I myself, in turn, find it exasparating that whenever a German speaker is called out for nazi provocations, worldwide nazidom reverses the accusation and cries that he is only called a nazi because he is German. Get over the victim complex. Nazis were the perpetrators, they are a bloody disgrace. As importantly, nobody ever thinks of Germany as a nazi state, and the whole world has come to terms with Germany's and Austria's past. All have, except for nazis - the world's biggest crybabies. They murder fifty million, and then cry for decades that everybody is so mean to them and keeps calling them names.

You know, I don't even mind PanzerJaeger. He likes nazis, sympathises with them, and if it were up to him, they'd kill fifty million more. Fine. I can deal with it and debate it. I vehemently disagree, but it doesn't get my back up all the time.
Certainly I respect it more than crybabies who either refuse to acknowledge that the nazis were murderers (the gas chambers are all lies!), or who cry over the evil Russians and British (boohoohoo...they bombed Dresden! ), or who persist in crying that 'we didn't know what was going on in WWII', or who cry that it was all the fault of somebody else. (The Jews! The French! The Americans!)

[Louis VI the Fat]

As for Haider's gayness: yes, it is relevant. Firstly, there is the usual notion that somebody's sexuality is relevant for politicians who portray themselves as conservative family man. Haider lived two lives:

Haider, who voted against a parliamentary motion to lower the age of consent for homosexuals, had presented himself as a family man who drank sparingly. But after the car crash it was revealed that he had been driving at twice the speed limit, his blood alcohol level had been four times the legal limit, and he had spent his final hours in a gay bar in Klagenfurt (Link from Ronin's post above)

Secondly, it is important since this is Austria. A cocaine sniffing pederast nazi provocateur, that is exactly what Haider was. And he was this because he was Austrian. I think I'll do more than just insult Haider. I'll take some swipes at the whole of Austria:
Austria has never come to terms with its nazi past. Much less so than Germany. Austria was not de-nazified like Germany was after WWII. The nazi period was seen as a foreign invasion, an alien aborration of Austria's history. This couldn't be farther from the truth. Nazism has many roots, but certainly Austria's history is among the foremost of them. Nazism is better described as Austro-Balkan nationalism that invaded Germany at a time when Germany was confused and bitter.
Austria has not engaged in some self-criticism. In taking a long, hard look into what made Austria a nazi hotbed, and how this could be prevented.

Behind the tidy, bourgeois façades of Austria - upheld externally and domestically, individually and collectively - something always brews. Be it the rape cellars of family men, secretly gay politicians who vote anti-gay laws, widespread nazi-sympathies from businessmen, perennial anti-Semitism in intellectual powerhouse Vienna, or hatred of Slavs in precisely the Austrian provinces that are inhabited by Germanised Slavs. No wonder Freud was a product of Austria.

That is Austria. And Haider, his complicated character and policies, and his popularity at home, are the unique products of Austria.

[Louis VI the Fat]

are all right-wing homophobes secretly butt-pirates???

Lovely link, Ronin. I think he wasn't the lover of Haider though, Just infatuated with him all these years.
I think Haider stuck with Gadaffi - he was his long-term homosexual relationship, and he mixed this with ever younger Slovakian boys for his quick fixes.


And no, not all gays of the hardright are closet homosexuals. Austrians usually are. Americans are too. Toe-tapping family men.
Why? Because of the social conservatism of their countries. Because of the schizophrenia this creates. One wonders whether many didn't turn into hardright conservative 'family men' because of their latent sexual preference in the first place.

Hence, French and Iberian homosexual rightwingers are usually...leftwingers. Socially more tolerant, less religious rigidity, more relaxed about human physicality, they can cope psychologically with their gayness and don't need to supress their inner demons by turning into hardright, obsessive 'family values' men. Psychologically, there is little problem, socially, the societies are not open enough to publically embrace homosexuality, so they choose leftwing progressiveness.

And of course, fully open societies like the Dutch have rightwingers who are openly gay, and who are popular amongst the extreme hardright because of it.

[Strike For The South]

This thread touch a nerve Louie? :clap:

[rvg]

I'll say nothing about the guy, because quite honestly nothing good comes to mind.

[Ronin]

Lovely link, Ronin. I think he wasn't the lover of Haider though, Just infatuated with him all these years.
I think Haider stuck with Gadaffi - he was his long-term homosexual relationship, and he mixed this with ever younger Slovakian boys for his quick fixes.


And no, not all gays of the hardright are closet homosexuals. Austrians usually are. Americans are too. Toe-tapping family men.
Why? Because of the social conservatism of their countries. Because of the schizophrenia this creates. One wonders whether many didn't turn into hardright conservative 'family men' because of their latent sexual preference in the first place.

Freudian slip?

Hence, French and Iberian homosexual rightwingers are usually...leftwingers. Socially more tolerant, less religious rigidity, more relaxed about human physicality, they can cope psychologically with their gayness and don't need to supress their inner demons by turning into hardright, obsessive 'family values' men. Psychologically, there is little problem, socially, the societies are not open enough to publically embrace homosexuality, so they choose leftwing progressiveness.

And of course, fully open societies like the Dutch have rightwingers who are openly gay, and who are popular amongst the extreme hardright because of it.

I don´t know about that...there has been "talk" about the leader of our right wing party for years now....and if it was confirmed to be true he´d be finished politically.

[Louis VI the Fat]

there has been "talk" about the leader of our right wing party for years now

Portuguese are all girlie men.

All our big shots of the hard right right have lots of manly testosterone and chesthair - Bruno Mégret, Jean-Marie Le Pen, and Marine Le Pen.

[Big_John]

All our big shots of the hard right right have lots of manly testosterone and chesthair

how butch!

[KukriKhan]

And so, as if life itself had not defeated the man, we have certainly beaten him soundly at least 600 feet more than usual toward the center of the earth.

Thanks for all contributions. Thread is closed before spitting ensues... lest our intrepid posters lose more precious bodily fluids.