Multiculturalism.

[Paradox]

What's wrong with celebrating holidays on other countries? They have Christmas and Easter here, foreigners have the days off, including us. We get a holiday along with the teachers.

[Koga No Goshi]

it would stay up. There would be no riots or violence.

If you ever make such a cartoon, Strike, I strongly suggest not to sign your real name to it. I wouldn't count on no violence.

[KarlXII]

Make a cartoon of Jesus holding the bloody head of a Palestinian child and see how the Christians in our own fair, freedom-loving country react.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2006...shing.politics

The Danish daily turned down the cartoons of Christ three years ago, on the grounds that they could be offensive to readers and were not funny

LOL.

"I don't think Jyllands-Posten's readers will enjoy the drawings. As a matter of fact, I think that they will provoke an outcry. Therefore, I will not use them."

"Got anymore of those Bomb Turban cartoons? Those are hilarious!"

"In the Muhammad drawings case, we asked the illustrators to do it. I did not ask for these cartoons. That's the difference," he said.

Let me get this straight, he requested the Mohammed cartoons, but won't accept cartoons lampooning Jesus.

[Koga No Goshi]

That's exactly the reason you don't see these things popping up with regularity about Jesus or Christian icons. Publishers know how the public would react and use prudence about it. And yes there is a double standard when it comes to the argument of respect for religion vs. freedom of speech.

[Strike For The South]

If you ever make such a cartoon, Strike, I strongly suggest not to sign your real name to it. I wouldn't count on no violence.

If I ever publish something my name will be all over it for two reasons 1. Im an egotistical self serving bastard and 2. If you dont have the cojones to put your name on what you write you shouldn't be writing in the first place

[Koga No Goshi]

If I ever publish something my name will be all over it for two reasons 1. Im an egotistical self serving bastard and 2. If you dont have the cojones to put your name on what you write you shouldn't be writing in the first place

I agree but that's beside the point. The point is the vast majority of western world publishers have the common sense not to distribute or publish such a thing in the first place. So people acting like the response to the Mohammad cartoons was so wildly out of whack with how Christians in our own country would react to a similar depiction of Jesus is very blindfolded.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

That's exactly the reason you don't see these things popping up with regularity about Jesus or Christian icons. Publishers know how the public would react and use prudence about it. And yes there is a double standard when it comes to the argument of respect for religion vs. freedom of speech.

Um, cartoons of Jesus do appear.

[Strike For The South]

I agree but that's beside the point. The point is the vast majority of western world publishers have the common sense not to distribute or publish such a thing in the first place. So people acting like the response to the Mohammad cartoons was so wildly out of whack with how Christians in our own country would react to a similar depiction of Jesus is very blindfolded.

Remember the Jesus in urine? Where were the burning cars or flags or violence?

[Koga No Goshi]

Look like things you can find in a google search. Not a newspaper or magazine. Not in the U.S., anyway.

Remember the Jesus in urine? Where were the burning cars or flags or violence?

Indeed, that was back in 1989 and Christians STILL talk about it, a point you have proved by instantly bringing it up. It provoked huge outrage. Imagine what a depiction of Jesus as a violent killer or terrorist would provoke, in today's political environment in the U.S., if in a newspaper or magazine.

Saying Europeans have a shrug it off attitude about religious depictions is not really a fair comparison, as Europe has steadily become more secular and less religious for decades. The U.S., while arguably nowhere near as religious as the Middle East, is a much closer comparison. And there is still quite a lot of vandalism and violence related to religious issues in the U.S. No publication is stupid enough to print something that any 5 year old could tell you would be offensive to Christians. Now, if you want to argue religion is stupid and getting angry about religion is stupid, you have no argument from me. But it's a double standard to imply that Muslims are more irrational and less respecting of free speech than a lot of Christians are. As a nonreligious person of any stripe I have to say I do not see that distinction in the western world. There is very much an unwritten rule that you should speak respectfully about Christian beliefs in the public sphere and you know in advance that you are attracting negative attention and hate mail if you do otherwise.

Remember this ? http://www.parentdish.com/2006/03/05...brary-shelves/ Let's not pretend Christian influence in the U.S. has exactly been a traditional ally of free speech.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Look like things you can find in a google search. Not a newspaper or magazine. Not in the U.S., anyway.

If there was an outcry, it would've been published on the internet. The last image I linked to you, by the way (which I feel ashamed of myself for doing), was published in a newspaper in some university in the States. And what about things like South Park?

[Koga No Goshi]

If there was an outcry, it would've been published on the internet. The last image I linked to you, by the way (which I feel ashamed of myself for doing), was published in a newspaper in some university in the States. And what about things like South Park?

Universities are already under attack for being liberal and "Anti-Christian", EMFM. That's par for course. And many university newspapers do try to push the line, though very rarely does it wind up being national coverage of some offensive cartoon in a local university paper. You get me something really offensive about Christ published by something more than a couple hundred people read in the U.S., and you'll have yourself a point.

Sometimes I think you may not know the U.S. as well as you seem to talk as if you do, EMFM. If the same radical Christian elements in the U.S. had their way we'd be learning creationism and intelligent design in schools and universities, no sex education, and no programs to encourage or teach the use of condoms. The fact that they haven't succeeded yet doesn't change the fact that they are here.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Koga, I suspect you don't watch South Park, but even if Christians do overreact to negative portrayls of Christ, when was the last time physical damage was done in response? I don't agree with book-banning, but there's nothing wrong with a boycott, a written complaint, or even a non-violent protest?

Back on topic, I don't have a problem with multiculturalism really, that seems pretty straightforward. As for immigration, since the United States doesn't have an established language, I don't see why anyone needs to speak English to enter. It'll just be harder for them, won't it? I also disagree with the notion that moving to a country means you think it is better than your previous country.

[Koga No Goshi]

I think Strike and I could verify, living in two states which receive very large amounts of immigrants each year, that it's quite common for people to enter without proficiency in English and they seem to get by pretty well, considering.

RE: South Park, my point originally was that the western press in general "knows better" than to print something VERY offensive to Christians, and then wave around free speech as the excuse when the backlash comes in. Even the Danish paper knew that, they'd rejected Jesus cartoons previously before running the Mohammad one.

[PanzerJaeger]

Koga, I suspect you don't watch South Park, but even if Christians do overreact to negative portrayls of Christ, when was the last time physical damage was done in response? I don't agree with book-banning, but there's nothing wrong with a boycott, a written complaint, or even a non-violent protest?

Or Family Guy.. or.. TV in general.

Jesus is the constant butt of satire and jokes. Nobody is rioting.

Is it so hard to admit that the Christian community may be slightly more mature than the muslim screamers? I thought it was pretty common knowledge. The enforced relativism of the Left on this issue is counterproductive and acts as an enabling force.

[Koga No Goshi]

Or Family Guy.. or.. TV in general.

Jesus is the constant butt of satire and jokes. Nobody is rioting.

Is it so hard to admit that the Christian community may be slightly more mature than the muslim screamers?

Oh I never claimed their reaction to everything is the same. But I claimed, and still maintain, that the Western press knows better, or at least, knows what the limits are, and doesn't push it. I have seen nothing in a major paper or publication showing the equivalent of Jesus as a terrorist, or mass murderer.

However, on the other hand, black churches in the South have been firebombed, abortion clinics have been blown up so.... is it really hard to admit that the Christian community may be as potentially radical and criminally insane as the worst Islam has to offer? ;)

[PanzerJaeger]

Oh I never claimed their reaction to everything is the same. But I claimed, and still maintain, that the Western press knows better, or at least, knows what the limits are, and doesn't push it. I have seen nothing in a major paper or publication showing the equivalent of Jesus as a terrorist, or mass murderer.

However, on the other hand, black churches in the South have been firebombed, abortion clinics have been blown up so.... is it really hard to admit that the Christian community may be as potentially radical and criminally insane as the worst Islam has to offer? ;)

Its a matter of scale. There are radicals on both sides, but they are in the majority on only one.

[Koga No Goshi]

Its a matter of scale. There are radicals on both sides, but they are in the majority on only one.

That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of how great Christianity is from the perspective of someone who isn't Christian, and doesn't particularly care to have either religion barging in and trying to ban books or insert religious teachings or qualify freedom of speech.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Unsurprisingly, a promising topic for discussion has descended into racism and the circular argument on Islamic vs Christian censorship.

Closed pending staff discussion on whether the original topic can be resurrected - but as I can only see about four substantive posts on the subject, don't hold your breath.