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  1. #1
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gaming News Thread

    Well, I think realistic space combat would be rather boring as the lack of any air resistance would make ranges almost infinite and whoever can find the enemy first can fire first and that's about it. A proper computer system would make sure the shot hits, they can already hit ballistic missiles from ships on waves with all the randomness involved. What would make them miss in space?


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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gaming News Thread

    A lot of it

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    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gaming News Thread

    For anyone interested in the American Civil War, AGEod is coming out with ACW 2 sometime this year.


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    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gaming News Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Well, I think realistic space combat would be rather boring as the lack of any air resistance would make ranges almost infinite and whoever can find the enemy first can fire first and that's about it. A proper computer system would make sure the shot hits, they can already hit ballistic missiles from ships on waves with all the randomness involved. What would make them miss in space?
    Doesn't that depend on how far away you are, the speed of the projectile you are firing, and how fast the target can change course? My guess is ballistic missiles aren't fast enough to move out of the way of ballistic projectiles within the distances we deal with on earth.

    If you have one straight-moving projectile that is not fast enough to beat the maneuvering of a target very far away, space combat is probably boring because you won't be *able* to hit the target. That's part of why sci-fi games uses missiles and lasers and/or distances that aren't very far.

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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gaming News Thread

    Well, a laser is pretty fast, so unless we're talking about lightminutes of distance, which is already far enough so you won't see much of the enemy I guess, it's not very likely that they will miss. A distance of 100km isn't a whole lot for a laser in space. A missile would take rather long to travel that distance anyway and a laser on the target could easily destroy the missile before it even gets close. If the game models battles over distances of several lightminutes then it's still boring of course since just waiting for them to show up on your radar screen would take minutes.and as you say there's not really a weapons system that could work against a target flying random patterns at this distance. Unless you fire some kind of field weapon where the field covers a large area or cone. But at within visual range engagements or even anything close to it a laser makes zap and it's a hit. The kind of slow-flying "laser projectiles" of games and movies aren't really realistic after all and realism was the assumption here, right?


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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gaming News Thread

    Pretty excited about the ps4. Looks like Sony learned from it's mistakes and made hidiously powerfull console that's easy to work with, at a very reasonable price

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df...-playstation-4
    Last edited by Fragony; 02-24-2013 at 07:15.

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gaming News Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Well, a laser is pretty fast, so unless we're talking about lightminutes of distance, which is already far enough so you won't see much of the enemy I guess, it's not very likely that they will miss. A distance of 100km isn't a whole lot for a laser in space. A missile would take rather long to travel that distance anyway and a laser on the target could easily destroy the missile before it even gets close. If the game models battles over distances of several lightminutes then it's still boring of course since just waiting for them to show up on your radar screen would take minutes.and as you say there's not really a weapons system that could work against a target flying random patterns at this distance. Unless you fire some kind of field weapon where the field covers a large area or cone. But at within visual range engagements or even anything close to it a laser makes zap and it's a hit. The kind of slow-flying "laser projectiles" of games and movies aren't really realistic after all and realism was the assumption here, right?
    Ah, but laser isn't just zapping someone and taking them out. You have to keep the laser on target - a specific point - and burning a hole into the enemy ship. Even if this takes just a few seconds, at ranges of 1000km the slightest error in targeting or stability could screw that up. And then you burn a hole and take out one compartment.

    I would heavily recommend this site:
    http://www.projectrho.com/public_htm...--Laser_Cannon

    If your opponent has a laser, they can shoot you, and possibly destroy your own laser. Unless you get their laser first. Or they might shoot some self-guiding projectiles at you, and you'll have to use your laser to blow them up before they hit you. And while you do that they hit you with their laser.

    And projectile weapons don't lose energy over space, so they could be fired from outside of laser range - hopefully with enough projectiles to saturate any laser defense. But lasers will always have a lot of range with which they can destroy incoming projectiles.

    As to what could make lasers miss:
    And don't think that lasers will automatically hit their targets either. There are many factors that can cause a miss. Off the top of his head, Dr. John Schilling mentions:

    Uncertain target location due to finite sensor resolution
    Uncertain target motion due to sensor glint or shape effects
    Sensor boresight error due to finite manufacturing tolerances
    Target motion during sensor integration time
    Analog-to-digital conversion errors of sensor data
    Software errors in fire control system
    Hardware errors in fire control system
    Digital-to-analog conversion errors of gunlaying servo commands
    Target motion during weapon aiming time
    Weapon boresight error due to finite manufacturing tolerances
    Weapon structural distortion due to inertial effects of rapid slew
    Weapon structural distortion due to external or internal vibration
    Weapon structural distortion due to thermal expansion during firing
    And we haven't even begun to include target countermeasures...
    CR
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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gaming News Thread

    What mister cube says. In space you also have to deal with less random movement than you do on say, an ocean, yet the navy can already aim lasers at one spot of a moving target from a moving platform.



    The only thing that would limit laser range are bad optics that lead to the beam dissipating and becoming less focused at long distances. Or an enemy coated in mirrors. And projectiles fired at 100.000km range would have to be guided or suffer from really, really bad accuracy. However, even if you fire 100 missiles, at 100.000km there's plenty of time to destroy them with a laser before they arrive. And if you're coated in mirrors you also don't have to worry about the other guy's laser. Or you can fire 200 missiles back to keep him busy for a few minutes. In gaming terms that would all still mean you're sending stuff towards a blip on your radar, in the case of lasers you can even spare yourself any graphical effects.

    If you like that sort of thing, there's already a game for you: https://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home


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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gaming News Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    Lasers play a huge, huge part in modern warfare already. An Abrams tank uses a laser range-finder for just about everything, from calibrating a firing solution for a main gun round to telling your loader how high he should aim his machine gun.
    I know, I tried the Steel Beasts demo.
    But these lasers aren't even used in space. I'd think in space you even deal with less vibration, there are no different layers of air temperature etc. etc., making things easier. My point was if they're already used effectively in this rough terrain here on earth, why should they be less reliable in space, where everything floats around gently? There are no waves or bumps in space that could suddenly distort your aim. There is also no air that makes them less intense at long ranges. The one thing that could defeat them are mirrors. If you fired a missile with a mirror in front of the warhead then the laser might destroy the ship that fires it.so maybe scratch lasers, how do photon torpedos and plasma blasters work again?


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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Gaming News Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    I know, I tried the Steel Beasts demo.
    But these lasers aren't even used in space. I'd think in space you even deal with less vibration, there are no different layers of air temperature etc. etc., making things easier. My point was if they're already used effectively in this rough terrain here on earth, why should they be less reliable in space, where everything floats around gently? There are no waves or bumps in space that could suddenly distort your aim. There is also no air that makes them less intense at long ranges. The one thing that could defeat them are mirrors. If you fired a missile with a mirror in front of the warhead then the laser might destroy the ship that fires it.so maybe scratch lasers, how do photon torpedos and plasma blasters work again?

    It's like you're not reading my previous post. And lasers have to deal with diffraction in any environment: http://panoptesv.com/SciFi/LaserDeat...ffraction.html

    Mirrors don't work. No mirror is 100% efficient in reflecting light and any amount of energy that isn't reflected will nigh-on instantly destroy the reflective capabilities of the mirror. And then destroy the mirror and whatever is behind it.

    Imagine salvo after salvo of ship-peircing kinetic bursts being fired at the ship's current location and every location that the computer thinks they might possibly be. The tactic most successful would probably be finding the enemy unawares, getting a range bearing (difficult if the other guy has laser-detecting technology, which already exists, so... element of surprise would be difficult to get beyond that brief first moment) and then having your cannons saturate a spherical area exactly large enough to encompass any place the enemy ship could be by the time your rounds got there.
    Ah, now this begins to get interesting. Another possibility is firing kinetic weapons with some small boosters to allow for mid flight adjustments. Otherwise, trying to saturate the possible routes of a ship 1,000 km away could - would - take more ammo than is available.

    Here's a short discussion of space combat tactics:
    http://www.projectrho.com/public_htm...vanced_Tactics

    And there's links here to a variety of interesting discussions on lasers, missiles, and kinetic weapons;
    http://www.projectrho.com/public_htm...--Introduction

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

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