"Anabasis" the movie

[Zeibek]

The success of "300" also helped.

"Crazy tribes, brutal terrain, vicious combat, hellacious weather-- 'Anabasis' is full of astounding endurance and heroism," said Jonathan Sharp.

Inspired by 300: The rape of Xenophon's classic, with crazy, savage and oriental Persians slaughtered by civilised Greeks, the predecessors of us western Europeans.

300 was based on a comic, I can understand the fantasy elements. But here the ordeal of the 10 000 Greek mercenaries will be nothing more than a bad excuse for blood and gore.

Now please excuse me as I go and vomit.

[The Celt]

The success of "300" also helped.

"Crazy tribes, brutal terrain, vicious combat, hellacious weather-- 'Anabasis' is full of astounding endurance and heroism," said Jonathan Sharp.

I just love how hypocritical us westerns have become. Last time I checked, the Greeks were the "savages" at the time, not the Persians. Need I remind you that unlike in the Persian Wars, these Greeks aren't "freedom fighters" they are mercenaries, meaning, they only care about the freaking money!(And getting out alive of course.) Recall that not too long ago, the First Crusade was described as the above as well, before people began doing more research and found that it was the other way around!

Not that I want to take away from Xenophon's tale. The march of the ten thousand is a great story and would make a great movie/miniseries, but not when that oh-too-familiar modern viewpoint of the ancient Greeks as "ancestors of Europe" and "fathers of democracy" BS is once again spewing from the seems of Hollywood filmmakers heads.

[artavazd]

I just love how hypocritical us westerns have become. Last time I checked, the Greeks were the "savages" at the time, not the Persians. Need I remind you that unlike in the Persian Wars, these Greeks aren't "freedom fighters" they are mercenaries, meaning, they only care about the freaking money!(And getting out alive of course.) Recall that not too long ago, the First Crusade was described as the above as well, before people began doing more research and found that it was the other way around!

Not that I want to take away from Xenophon's tale. The march of the ten thousand is a great story and would make a great movie/miniseries, but not when that oh-too-familiar modern viewpoint of the ancient Greeks as "ancestors of Europe" and "fathers of democracy" BS is once again spewing from the seems of Hollywood filmmakers heads.

You Know Ive always found that wierd too. I mean the feudalistic society of Medievel Europe based on the Knights, sounds more like Persian/Parthian and Armenian society of ancient times. That whole idea of "ancestors of Europe" and "fathers of democracy" is VERY GENERALIZED. I mean there existed forms of democracy in the Germanic tribes, and the Celts. I dont understand why the Greeks are labled "fathers of democracy" Also just to make note and its a little bit off topic, but true democracy can only exist with a small and intellegent population which ofcourse disregards all of the so called "democratic" countries of today :))

[Hax]

Inspired by 300: The rape of Xenophon's classic, with crazy, savage and oriental Persians Iranians slaughtered by civilised Greeks, the predecessors of us western Europeans.

This would fit better, heh.

[keravnos]

While I understand completely the fight against generalisation let's get some quick facts out.

"Europe" as a name is first mentioned in a Greek myth, where Zeus falls in love with her, and transforms himself into a Bull and takes her away from Asia to what is now...Europe. As Greeks first came up with this myth, it is fair to call them "Ancestors" of Europe, as without them it would probably have a different name.

Democracy as you correctly say was invented far from Greece, existed from Northern India to Gaul to Germania. However the very first details on it we have are from Chios (First established Democracy ever with written documents to prove it). Athens, on the other hand, was the first truely "Democratic" state. Its rulers would always have to justify their action. Civil servants were chosen by chance and had to account for their actions. All that and more are described in Aristotle's "ATHENAION POLITEIA" (Constitution of Athens). Mind you according to Ancient Athenians, our own way of government would be called "Oligarchy" as there was no direct democracy as in Ancient Athens. Those are facts, which are written down to us by the Ancients, and are verifiable by archaeologial finds, marble stelai which start off as "EDOXE TEI BOULEI KAI TO DEMOI"="The council (legislative authority) and People have decided that..."
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-aristotle.png
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy

Like I said, there is no need to generalize. Ancient Athens had its own very real faults which led to its downfall. There are also many things attributed to Ancient Greeks which are plainly NOT THEIRS, aka this alphabet, which should be called "Evolved Phoenician" not latin. Greek are "Evolved Phoenician" too, and can only claim ancestry because they exist, whereas Phoenicians don't.

Without being or sounding condescending to other cultures, the reason that Greeks are considered the Ancestors of "Europe" is simple. They came up with the word which symbolizes the continent we live in. "Democracy" while it did exist before them, was only put into practice and organized into a system (described by Aristotle) by Athens. The Athenian state organized its public life and state for more than 300 years in Democracy, turning a good idea into institution. This just didn't happen in the West or East of Greece. Roma Republic and all present day polities would be viewed by the Ancient Athenians as Oligarchies. The reason why Ancient Greeks, my ancestors, are considered the fathers of Democracy is because they turned a dream into a working institution and were the first to do so, and left enough data so that we know just how it worked. They weren't neither Super-intelligent, nor Hyper beings. They were just the first.

The Celt, if you want BS, go pester a Bull until he produces what it is you are looking for. Nobody did Ancient Greeks a favor by calling them "Ancestors" of Europe or "Fathers of Democracy". It was based on facts which I have just established and are easily verifiable.

(thanks to ||Lz3|| for correcting me)

[Maion Maroneios]

Keravnos, that was very well said. It's a good thing someone presents the facts for a change once in while, especially in our days.

Maion

[||Lz3||]

Keravnos... don't you mean "The Celt" instead of "Celtic Punk"?

EDIT: I might as well say that what you said was, well... very well said!. We owe so many things to the greeks

[keravnos]

Indeed, corrected and my apologies to Celtic Punk if he has seen my post. If he hasn't no harm no foul.

[artavazd]

While I understand completely the fight against generalisation let's get some quick facts out.

"Europe" as a name is first mentioned in a Greek myth, where Zeus falls in love with her, and transforms himself into a Bull and takes her away from Asia to what is now...Europe. As Greeks first came up with this myth, it is fair to call them "Ancestors" of Europe, as without them it would probably have a different name.

Democracy as you correctly say was invented far from Greece, existed from Northern India to Gaul to Germania. However the very first details on it we have are from Chios (First established Democracy ever with written documents to prove it). Athens, on the other hand, was the first truely "Democratic" state. Its rulers would always have to justify their action. Civil servants were chosen by chance and had to account for their actions. All that and more are described in Aristotle's "ATHENAION POLITEIA" (Constitution of Athens). Mind you according to Ancient Athenians, our own way of government would be called "Oligarchy" as there was no direct democracy as in Ancient Athens. Those are facts, which are written down to us by the Ancients, and are verifiable by archaeologial finds, marble stelai which start off as "EDOXE TEI BOULEI KAI TO DEMOI"="The council (legislative authority) and People have decided that..."
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-aristotle.png
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy

Like I said, there is no need to generalize. Ancient Athens had its own very real faults which led to its downfall. There are also many things attributed to Ancient Greeks which are plainly NOT THEIRS, aka this alphabet, which should be called "Evolved Phoenician" not latin. Greek are "Evolved Phoenician" too, and can only claim ancestry because they exist, whereas Phoenicians don't.

Without being or sounding condescending to other cultures, the reason that Greeks are considered the Ancestors of "Europe" is simple. They came up with the word which symbolizes the continent we live in. "Democracy" while it did exist before them, was only put into practice and organized into a system (described by Aristotle) by Athens. The Athenian state organized its public life and state for more than 300 years in Democracy, turning a good idea into institution. This just didn't happen in the West or East of Greece. Roma Republic and all present day polities would be viewed by the Ancient Athenians as Oligarchies. The reason why Ancient Greeks, my ancestors, are considered the fathers of Democracy is because they turned a dream into a working institution and were the first to do so, and left enough data so that we know just how it worked. They weren't neither Super-intelligent, nor Hyper beings. They were just the first.

The Celt, if you want BS, go pester a Bull until he produces what it is you are looking for. Nobody did Ancient Greeks a favor by calling them "Ancestors" of Europe or "Fathers of Democracy". It was based on facts which I have just established and are easily verifiable.

(thanks to ||Lz3|| for correcting me)

Kervanos do not take offense. I am in no way down grading Greek civilization. I am just plainly pointing out that governments of Northern and North western European heritage should not USE Greek achievemnts and customs as propoganda and make false connections with a civilization that is much closer to the rest of the Mediteranian world than to Northern Europe.

Regarding Europe. I would like to point out that demographics have changed dramaticaly since the time of EB. Now demographicaly speaking European like people (caucasians) existed as far east as western china. What is today Turkey was inhabited by "eurpean" peoples. Even today with the vast demographic shifts, the Caucasus if any one has visted their (especialy Georgia, Armenia, and northern Caucasus) You would think you are amongst "eurpeans".

True Democracy never existed in Greece. Or any where else for that matter. Was it not only the land owning men of Athens that can cast votes? Also anyone who didnt belong to the polis could never gain true citizenship of that polis. This is what I mean by Modern governments using the term "democracy" as a propoganda tool.

[The Persian Cataphract]

Okay, everyone take a deep breath.

First of all, I am disappointed and downrightly appalled at the thought of someone referring to the ancient Greeks as "savages" even in highly figurative terms; it goes against absolutely every maxim that the team of Europa Barbarorum stands for. If we wish to make ourselves more independent from the Graeco-Romanocentric scholastic point of view and associated dogmas, fine, we even encourage scrutiny, independent thought and investigation, but this should never come at the cost of disrespecting a culture so macro-historically important and influential as that of the Greeks. Iranology already knows how it feels like to bear the brunt of repairing centuries of numerous Western-European dogmas, bogus Nazi-Fascist "anthropology" and outright Soviet-backed political revisionism. I don't want any of this to be bestowed upon any branch of scholarly studies. It's the worst form of poison and causes extra unnecessary work. Call them Gordian knots if you will.

There is no denying it; Europe, as a term is of indisputable Greek origins (So is Asia too actually... Neither terms are recognized in Old and Middle Persian, nor in the Aramaïc or Babylonian in the astronomical diaries). The problem is that this sense of identity was only recognized the Greeks, and so the term would only gradually be acquired and recognized by other states and nations during the Medieval age and the Renaissance; we have a glorious example of this. The so-called "Byzantines" were actually deprived of their Roman epithet by a bunch of Germanic folks who dubbed their slightly overgrown nation "Holy Roman Empire". It's not hard to see where I am going with this.

Democracy is another one of these indisputably Greek novelties... But something disturbs me. Scandinavian nations, who as usual deride their own native cultures as culturally inferior, take great pride in their own institutions and enjoy with great glee their "European identity", which of course is echoed by sensationalist elementary-grade history books bombastically claiming that the 300 Spartans saved Europe from the 2 million man horde of Oriental tyranny... We know all that, and the entire industry of romanticist exploitation, but excuse my French and my lack of political correctness, but where the fuck was Sweden back then? This is my problem; Greek culture in particular has been subjected to one of the worst forms of thievery, and the worst thing is that Western Europeans flip-flop their admiration freely between relative Athenian pluralism and philosophy to the daring campaigns of Alexander... This is clearly a problem with the consistency and ultimately marking the difference between respectful veneration and indeed inspiration, to downrightly perverse obsession.

It's just like the people who declare Cyrus II The Great as an infallible saint and those who at the same time point to Shapur's military humiliation of Roman emperors. This is not scholarship. This is folly.

[Narhon]

I just love how hypocritical us westerns have become. Last time I checked, the Greeks were the "savages" at the time, not the Persians. Need I remind you that unlike in the Persian Wars, these Greeks aren't "freedom fighters" they are mercenaries, meaning, they only care about the freaking money!(And getting out alive of course.) Recall that not too long ago, the First Crusade was described as the above as well, before people began doing more research and found that it was the other way around!

Not that I want to take away from Xenophon's tale. The march of the ten thousand is a great story and would make a great movie/miniseries, but not when that oh-too-familiar modern viewpoint of the ancient Greeks as "ancestors of Europe" and "fathers of democracy" BS is once again spewing from the seems of Hollywood filmmakers heads.

They wrote it down and scholars during the Age of Enlightenment (which is still taught in our schools; if they teach history at all) admired the Greeks and had contempt for the Germanic and Celtic tribes/ nations.

[The Celt]

I sometimes wonder if you guys realize that you post on a video game forum. I meant no offense towards the ancient Hellenes, and if I happened to offend any whom, in some godforsaken way, still live and can speak English than I humbly bow thy knee to them in prostration and beg forgiveness.
As for the rest of you guys, I suggest not to get all worked up over some high-school boy's silly testosterone driven comments regarding history. As other forum goers might know, I'm not the kind of person who gets into these long, drawn-out shout fests over differing opinions on the aspects of long dead civilizations who's equally dead inhabitants honestly couldn't give a cow chip who was right about them or who was not. So lets move shall we?

Ontopic: Ahem, anyway I wonder whether or not they'll attempt to properly portray the skirmishing tactics used by Xenophon on the way back to Greece. My guess is they'll do something more along the lines of Gladiator where everybody jumps out from the cliffs yelling "surpirse!" and they all fight each other in bullet-time style kung-fu.

[Megas Methuselah]

Have no fear, my son. I forgive you.

Anyways, I know this is termed as a video game forum, but please look more closely. The blessed EB Team takes this "game" seriously. EB is one of the few successful, modern games that takes humanity's history seriously. When you play this game, you are witnessing ways in which our great and fallible ancestors lived. You'll see how we, as human beings, once fought, lived, and died. You'll begin to understand the deeper meanings of our very existence, and see the reasons why we did what we did, be it through folly or intelligence. This game is history, my friend. I'm glad you play it, and I hope that you continue to do so.

Btw, the movie will probably ignore formations, and everything historical. It should still be fun, though, eh? Much like 300?!