Idea 4 eleutheroi

[Cyrus]

Hi i just had an idea for the depiction of the many factions represented by eleutheroi.as many of u well know not all factions were at war with what we call "rebels".for example the greeks always had strong relations,both coltural and economical with its former colonies,like sinope.so i was thinking to divide up the rebel aiction in two,the free cities with wich u may commerce;and brigands or pirates wich would do the exact same thing they did in history and in eb,ruin commerce and attack armies.
I also would like to say this is an awsome mod and i cant wait for number 2.

[Foot]

Several problems with this idea. I cannot think of any state during our timeframe that could be classed as "brigands or pirates", it follows therefore that any state represented by a rebel province could be traded with. Thus it would follow that every state would be of these "free cities with wich u may commerce". However by electing to make this faction a full faction and allow diplomacy to act upon it then all diplomatic options are open - and this is the big problem - it thus allows a player or AI faction to be at peace with a large proportion if not all the rebel factions.

This has been discussed and it has been rejected.

Foot

[ziegenpeter]

Plus, AFAIK, all the Free Cities would act like one faction, with lots of towns spread over the map.

[Puupertti Ruma]

I've been toying with the idea that the script would make you to have peace agreement with the eleutheroi maybe once in 5 years. With MTW2's better script language it could also work so that eleutheroi will make peace treaty in 5 years after last conflict. It would give the small and isolated factions someone to trade with, but would give the player possibility to fend the brigands of his lands or wage wars against eleutheroi without the fear of making them non-tradeable enemies for the rest of the game. If it was expanded to work with AI factions, it would most probably hinder the AI expansion to eleutheroi lands.

[Cyrus]

Oh ok.
however i dont think u understand,i ment to make 2 rebel factions,except that the one with wich u may trade would probably be different for each faction.like for the greeks their former colonies,the romans with some greek colonies,and other factions would have to be thought over.I understand however that this may not be possible but still i think its an ok idea,not however to permit all factions to trade with eleutheroi.

[Mithridates VI Eupator]

Oh ok.
however i dont think u understand,i ment to make 2 rebel factions,except that the one with wich u may trade would probably be different for each faction.like for the greeks their former colonies,the romans with some greek colonies,and other factions would have to be thought over.I understand however that this may not be possible but still i think its an ok idea,not however to permit all factions to trade with eleutheroi.

I don't understand what you mean.
How would this faction be different for every other faction? I don't think this is possible, especially since there can't be two rebel-style factions, so you could still engage in diplomatic relations with this faction, which would be unrealistic, as you'd ally all of these "free peoples", if you allied one.

[Cyrus]

Why can there not be 2 rebel factions? and what i meant was to make something of a semi rebel factions for the cities(so you can have trade with them) but they would not trade with everyone.
tell me if i need to be clearer.

[Foot]

You don't need to be clearer, we are not doing it. We've discussed it before and it is not an idea we want to pursue.

I've already mentioned the problems we have with it.

Foot

[Cyrus]

Yes yes i understand you dont wanna use the idea.
What i dont understand are the reasons.and anyway from this can come many others.Just think about it.

[General Appo]

They have thought about it, probably a lot more than you have or anyone else have. And they have rejected the idea. 1§

[Ludens]

They have thought about it, probably a lot more than you have or anyone else have. And they have rejected the idea. 1§

That's not very helpful, is it?

Yes yes i understand you dont wanna use the idea.
What i dont understand are the reasons.and anyway from this can come many others.Just think about it.

The problem is that, whether you create one or two rebel factions, the "rebels" would still be an artificial unit. If you turn Athens' colonies/allies into a faction, it will actually behave like a single nation rather than independent cities. Since EB is about realism, this is undesirable.

Also, the "rebels" aren't just pirates and brigands, in fact most of them aren't even rebels. They are minor factions that could not be included due to limitations in the engine. As such, it would be realistic to be able to negotiate with all of them, but again engine limitations don't allow this level of realism. Splitting them in two, so you can negotiate with part of the "rebels," seems a poor simulation of that.

[General Appo]

That's not very helpful, is it?

It wasn´t supposed to be.

[Smeel]

I might point out that Roma Surrectum have an extra "rebel" faction, and this extra faction given Provinces where there should have been a faction if not for the hardcoded limit, with some ordinary rebel cities around it. I haven't played RS more than 5 minutes though, went back t oeb ;) SO I don't know how well it works. But I like the concept.

[ziegenpeter]

AFAIK there are no "rebels" as such. All the Eleutheroi represent independent cities, tribes or minor kingdoms.

[eddy_purpus]

Several problems with this idea. I cannot think of any state during our timeframe that could be classed as "brigands or pirates", it follows therefore that any state represented by a rebel province could be traded with. Thus it would follow that every state would be of these "free cities with wich u may commerce". However by electing to make this faction a full faction and allow diplomacy to act upon it then all diplomatic options are open - and this is the big problem - it thus allows a player or AI faction to be at peace with a large proportion if not all the rebel factions.

This has been discussed and it has been rejected.

Foot

Besy answer , best decision ..
well made.