Is teaching your child about your religion mental abuse?

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.
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This is something I have been pondering the last few weeks..

A childs mind is tabula rasa... Thus, forcing your own religious belief onto this child, is that not a form of mental abuse?

If the [being] of the child in his life would wish to seek a spiritual life, would it not be best to let this [being] do it on his own? Find his own way?

I could add more, and I will, but I would rather have it in the debate phase:)

~Kukri

[rvg]

A childs mind is tabula rasa... Thus, forcing your own religious belief onto this child, is that not a form of mental abuse?

*Forcing* it is wrong. *Teaching* it is not.

If the [being] of the child in his life would wish to seek a spiritual life, would it not be best to let this [being] do it on his own? Find his own way?

Human mind can't do much if it has no information to work with. Introducing a child to a religion provides the child with the necessary information to make the correct decision on whether or not to follow any particular creed.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[rvg]

So what is the difference between forcing and teaching when it comes to a, say, 4 year old person who's world consists of mommy and daddy?

There is a reason why schools begin at the age of 7, and why more philosophical issues are handled when kids are 14+ (at least in the contries where I have gone to school).

Teaching is just that: teaching. It does not involve any coercement. As far as age goes, it doesn't really matter. If the child is old enough to absorb the information he'll absorb it, otherwise he'll just shrug it off. At 4 the child is unlikely to comrehend much of what religion is all about, beyond the most rudimentary things. For example, my daughter is 3.5 y.o. and to her Jesus == cross. So, A cross is Jesus, and a plus sign is Jesus. She knows that Jesus is something positive and that's good enough for me. Obviously, I won't discuss theology with her until she has reached the appropriate age.

[KukriKhan]

A childs mind is tabula rasa...

Your premise is also debateable.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[rvg]

rvg,

Is that not indoctrination?

Jesus is not something positive for everyone in the world, you know...

Indoctrination? Hardly. It's merely a parent sharing his worldview with his child. As far as Jesus not being positive for everybody, if you want to stick to that as your guiding principle as far as what should be taught to children, then there will be pretty much nothing left to teach, since just about any idea will findan opponent somewhere in the world.

[Fragony]

imho yes but I am an atheist which kinda can be a religion of it's own when it comes to evangelistic behaviour, a religious person is usually far more respectful of atheism then an atheist if of religion and I keep that in mind, I think teaching someone about their religion is a better thing then teaching them to destroy it wherever they happen to find it.

[KukriKhan]

If that is true, you would have to come up with a very good reason why there are so many budhists in asia, so many muslim in arab countries, and so many christians in the US... Am I wrong?

No, you're not. At least not prove-ably. Actually, you make the point for 'the other side' that a human is not a blank slate, but rather has a seeming instinct (among other instincts, or tendancies) to seek some "bigger than me" explanation for existence. This instinct validated by the widespread and varied search for gods world-wide by humans of all races, cultures and times. Only the details vary.

[rvg]

No, you're not. At least not prove-ably. Actually, you make the point for 'the other side' that a human is not a blank slate, but rather has a seeming instinct (among other instincts, or tendancies) to seek some "bigger than me" explanation for existence. This instinct validated by the widespread and varied search for gods world-wide by humans of all races, cultures and times. Only the details vary.

Human species is completely devoid of any instincts whatsoever. At least of anything that can be scientifically defined as an instinct. We do have some basic drives, but those do not qualify as instincts.

[Ronin]

Ideally a child should be informed in unbiased and rational way about the different world views and spiritual/philosophical positions in the world, and then be allowed to form his or hers own opinion.

but as we know the world is not perfect and this will not happen......religion and dogma is too engrained into our societies for it not to affect a child.

as for mental abuse?....I think you can find examples where I would use that world, like people that have extreme religious views and push that on their children causing them to live lives that are limited in so many ways....
But the average non-fanatical religious person that raises his children acording to his faith...I wouldn´t call that abuse....that´s an exageration.

Myself I was raised as a catholic, I was baptized, did first communion.....I don´t think I was mentally abused.....hey I even went to school in a catholic school for 4 years (and I wasn´t abused there either ) but when I got to the age I could think clearly about it I threw the religion aside pretty easily and became more of an atheist

In summation....moderate religious upgringing is no more mental abuse than telling a child there is a Santa Claus or a easter bunny.....or reading them Grimm's fairytales.

[KrooK]

Tabula rasa theory is simply false.

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much censorship on these boards.

[rvg]

rvg, that depends on what you mean with "jesus"... It is better to talk about christianity... What have you taught your child about christian beliefs?

Nothing, obviously. At her age she can recognize the defining symbol of Christianity, and that is good enough for me.

[Fragony]

Fragony, how about not teaching them about spiritual life at all then?

That wouldn't be preparing them for a society where religion just happens to exist. I am not a father mind you, I would teach them to always hold a respectable distance, I hope.

[Ser Clegane]

is that not a form of mental abuse?

Not more than any other teaching of morals/ethics IMHO.

If this already qualifies as mental abuse I guess parents would have to limit themselves to keeping their kids alive by feeding them* and otherwise let them discover everything by themseolves

* although they should not force any specific food on them - just let these little empty-minded buggers find out for themselves what food they prefer

[Rhyfelwyr]

Anything a parent does will influence their children. If a parent tells their child about religion then that is not indoctrination. At least no more than a child having an atheist parent who tells them religion is silly.

With everything a parent does they are influencing their children. If they eat something, then their children are more likely to try it, is that indoctrination? Of course parents influence their children, but its unavoidable unless all children are raised by the state in giant communes where they aren't allowed to learn anything in case it influences them before they grow up and think for themselves.

Also my parents are not religious BTW.

[Strike For The South]

If teaching religion to your kids is abuse than so is anything else a parent teaches. I dont see how you can see it as abuse when there are parents indoctrinating a kid the other way as well.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

If teaching religion to your kids is abuse than so is anything else a parent teaches.

Well, this argument doesn't work.

1) Wash your hands after going to the bathroom (good)
2) Wash your hands with bleach every five minutes (bad)

You would have to examine what was being taught.

[Strike For The South]

Well, this argument doesn't work.

1) Wash your hands after going to the bathroom (good)
2) Wash your hands with bleach every five minutes (bad)

You would have to examine what was being taught.

Well he didn't specify what religion or how fervently. He just made a blanket assumption. So I agree. I dont think one can call most anything a parent teaches a child "abuse" even if its religous extremism or racism. It is not the governments business to control thought within a household to begin with.

[Rhyfelwyr]

My above post should have said my parents were not religious.

I wouldn't think it is really necessary to indoctrinate children anyway, because it is predestined before time who will/will not be saved, these are the views most US Christians hold I believe. But then its a MATRIX situation - would you really have knocked the vase over if I didn't say you would have? Would it be your fault if they went to Hell because you hadn't taught them? No presumably since God is sovereign. So no need to indoctrinate children, just let them be aware.

[CrossLOPER]

Well, this argument doesn't work.

1) Wash your hands after going to the bathroom (good)
2) Wash your hands with bleach every five minutes (bad)

You would have to examine what was being taught.

Something like this.

[LittleGrizzly]

If a parent tells their child about religion then that is not indoctrination. At least no more than a child having an atheist parent who tells them religion is silly.

I completely agree!!!

If i was to just read off bad things religions have done day in day out to my child that would be indoctrination (the truth but a very baised selection of it) i think your indoctrinating your kid if your trying to make him religious like you or an atheist like you

I would share my theorys and my understanding of different religions with my child but i wouldn't push him towards any religion or non religion...

If one goes to church, children will want to come with them

From about the age of 8 i wanted to stop going to church, it wasn't till i hit about 15 that i was finally let off!!
I had to go on christmas day and everything!!! (damn evil christians!! )

TBH my mums fairly laid back on the whole religion thing, i would imagine there are loads of kids who went through what i went though.... and plenty worse...

Abuse is the wrong word... indoctrination is the more appropriate word... though indoctrination doesn't imply malicious intent, its similar to convincing your kid hes a con/lib like you

[Caius]

Sometimes you, as a parent(please notice that I'm not one), one uses religion to explain certain things that exceed the natural or are hard to teach at their age(e.g. Grandmum made the bag and went to Heaven). It also works to delimitate whats good and what is not, and to prepare them to be teached about religion. Its not a mental abuse, its just teaching them what is good and bad for God (the Christhian one and the other Gods also). If you send them into a catholic school, they are teaching them a lot more of God, but in any point they are commiting mental abuse. Later, if that child doesn't believe in God, is his or her choice, and if in one moment of their lifes they believe in God, good. If they don't believe in God for the rest of their lifes, good also.

Maybe you should define what mental abuse is, if you are still in the forum.

[seireikhaan]

Abuse? Hardly.

While I can appreciate your concern for the matter, Kad(I myself have been trying some soul searching the last year or so), abuse is a rather serious term for such an issue. As Don said, abuse implies that the government should come in and take the child away from the parent because of it. Frankly, any religious person is, in some way, going to pass on their beliefs to their children no matter how open minded they tell them to be, because children have a tendency to emulate their parent's actions for awhile when young. If one goes to church, children will want to come with them(well, at least until they hit 13 or so). If one goes to the Minaret or synogogue or stuppa or even baseball game, their children will wish to come with them, until they make a decision on whether or not they find it as interesting as their parents.