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Thread: Socialism at Work In Venezuela
Crazed Rabbit 18:54 10-23-2008
Two big things;
The level of oil produced in Venezuela has fallen by a quarter in the last ten years.


Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
Venezuela's oil output slumps under Hugo Chavez
Venezuela's daily oil production has fallen by a quarter since President Hugo Chavez won power, depriving his "Bolivarian Revolution" of much of the benefit of the global boom in oil prices.

By Jeremy McDermott in Caracas
Last Updated: 7:26AM BST 13 Oct 2008

To win allies and forge an anti-American front, Mr Chavez sells oil to friendly countries at low prices. Ironically, the only big customer buying Venezuelan oil at the full market price is the United States, which the president routinely denounces as the "Empire".

"As production falls, the sales to the US become more important," said Pietro Donatello, an oil analyst from Latin Petroleum in the capital, Caracas. "Only the US is paying the full amount for Venezuelan oil and in cash, the rest are in some kind of barter agreements."

The state oil company, PDVSA, produced 3.2 million barrels per day in 1998, the year before Mr Chavez won the presidency. After a decade of rising corruption and inefficiency, daily output has now fallen to 2.4 million barrels, according to OPEC figures. About half of this oil is now delivered at a discount to Mr Chavez's friends around Latin America. The 18 nations in his "Petrocaribe" club, founded in 2005, pay Venezuela only 30 per cent of the market price within 90 days, with rest in instalments spread over 25 years.

The other half - 1.2 million barrels per day - goes to America, Venezuela's only genuinely paying customer.

Meanwhile, Mr Chavez has given PDVSA countless new tasks. "The new PDVSA is central to the social battle for the advance of our country," said Rafael Ramirez, the company's president and the minister for petroleum. "We have worked to convert PDVSA into a key element for the social battle."

The company now grows food after Mr Chavez's price controls emptied supermarket shelves of products like milk and eggs. Another branch produces furniture and domestic appliances in an effort to stem the flow of imports. What PDVSA seems unable to do is produce more oil.

Venezuela has proven reserves of 80 billion barrels, but estimates suggest that it may possess 142 billion barrels - more than anywhere else except Saudi Arabia. But the crude is of low quality and must be upgraded before it can be shipped. There are only three upgrade units currently operating, processing only 600,000 barrels per day.

"There is a bottleneck in the Venezuelan production system," said Mazhar al-Sheridah, 68, an oil expert at the Central University of Venezuela. "It will cost at least $32 billion to build another three upgrading units and take some five years, meaning that Venezuelan production is stuck at current levels for a while yet."

All this means that Venezuela has missed much of the benefit from the oil boom and, now that prices are falling, Mr Chavez faces huge financial problems. Nobody is sure at what point his government would be unable to pay its bills, but most sources consulted believe this would probably happen if oil falls to $80 a barrel. Yesterday, oil was trading at $79.80.


Venezuela is having an increasingly hard time providing basic electrical services to its people.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
Oil powerhouse Venezuela struggles to keep lights on

By Brian Ellsworth Brian Ellsworth – Wed Oct 22, 11:49 pm ET

SAN FELIX, Venezuela (Reuters) – Despite having some of the world's largest energy reserves, Venezuela is increasingly struggling to maintain basic electrical service, a growing challenge for leftist President Hugo Chavez.

The OPEC nation has suffered three nationwide blackouts this year, and chronic power shortages have sparked protests from the western Andean highlands to San Felix, a city of mostly poor industrial workers in the sweltering south.

Shoddy electrical service is now one of Venezuelans' top concerns, according to a recent poll, and may be a factor in elections next month for governors and mayors in which Chavez allies are expected to lose key posts, in part on complaints of poor services.

The problem suggests that Chavez, with his ambitious international alliances and promises to end capitalism, risks alienating supporters by failing to focus on basic issues like electricity, trash collection and law enforcement.

"With so much energy in Venezuela, how can we be without power?" asked Fernando Aponte, 49, whose slum neighborhood of Las Delicias in San Felix spent 15 days without electricity -- leading him to block a nearby avenue with burning tires in protest.

Just next door, Carmen Fernandez, 82, who is blind and has a pacemaker, says she has trouble sleeping through sultry nights without even a fan to cool her.

Experts say Venezuela for years has skimped billions of dollars in electrical investments, leaving generation 20 percent below the level necessary for a stable power grid and increasing the risk of national outages. Officially Venezuela has a capacity of 22,500 megawatts for a population of 28 million people, but a sizeable proportion is not working, analysts say.

And while Chavez has won praise for investing in health and education, his government has done little to repair local distribution systems that deliver electricity to end users, from barrio residents to business and industries.

'GOD HEARD ME'

Pastora Medina, a legislator representing San Felix and nearby cities suffering chronic power problems, this month tried to bring the issue up in the national Congress in Caracas, but the legislature's leadership refused to let her speak.

Several hours later, as the legislature discussed a South American integration plan created by Chavez, Congress itself lost power for around 10 minutes.

"Congress wouldn't listen to me, but God must have," Medina said with a chuckle as she recounted the incident later at her office in San Felix.

Though it is a key oil exporter, most of Venezuela's power comes from hydroelectricity generated in dams in the southeast, near Brazil, and sent to the rest of the country. The remainder comes mainly from aging oil-fired plants.

The transimission system is also suffering from underinvestment, which makes it vulnerable to the failures that caused this year's blackouts.

The government has responded by building dozens of tiny local plants that generate a fraction of a percent of national consumption, a model known as "distributed generation" used in Cuba, where a U.S. embargo impedes electrical development.

But to keep up with demand, Venezuela needed to add 1,000 megawatts of new generation capacity every year for at least the last five years, but instead it has installed only about 350 MW a year.

"We have to reach the most remote villages with the system of distributed generation," Chavez said in recent speech, inaugurating a generator in a town with deficient power.

His government has also promised to accelerate new generation and boost transmission grid investment.

BARRIO IMPACT

But critics say these small power plants are political quick fixes that avoid tackling the thorny problems of boosting generation and fixing decrepit distribution systems.

"We need a clear energy policy, because the policy we have is not sustainable," Andres Matas, a former planning chief for a state power company. "This is a problem for the entire country."

He said this will require investment in local distribution systems, speeding up generation projects stalled for years by bureaucracy and lifting state-imposed price controls that keep tariffs at about 20 percent of what U.S. residents pay.

It will also require collecting fees from millions of barrio residents who illegally link their homes to the power grid with improvised and dangerous lines -- a move not likely to be popular with a government that depends on barrio votes.

Even as he enjoys strong support for his oil-financed social development campaign, polls show Chavez sympathizers are losing patience with the national and local politicians' inability to tackle bread-and-butter issues.

Chavez last year fired up his supporters with a wave of state takeovers including the nationalization of electricity operations, among them Electricidad de Caracas, which was majority owned by U.S.-based AES Corp.

But his supporters now seem more concerned about deteriorating service than the state ownership.

Chronic power problems take the strongest toll in barrios like those of San Felix -- still bastions of Chavez support -- where power surges routinely burn out home appliances.

"Our refrigerators have burned out so we can't shop for the week, we can only shop for one day at a time," said Nestor Pacheco, 39. "The situation is serious."

(Reporting by Brian Ellsworth; Editing by Eddie Evans)


I guess 21st century socialism is just as worthless as the original brand. And, of course, the people suffer.

CR

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rvg 18:57 10-23-2008
So, Chavez is a failure. Can't say that I'm surprised.

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Strike For The South 18:58 10-23-2008
Classist. How dare you use this as proof? The reason Venezuela's is having so much trouble is because America keeps meddling in her affairs. If we just butted out like we were supposed to then Chavez could institute what he really wanted to instead of having to keep one eye on us. UGH

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rvg 19:06 10-23-2008
Originally Posted by Strike For The South:
Classist. How dare you use this as proof? The reason Venezuela's is having so much trouble is because America keeps meddling in her affairs. If we just butted out like we were supposed to then Chavez could institute what he really wanted to instead of having to keep one eye on us. UGH
We are the universal bogeyman.

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Strike For The South 19:09 10-23-2008
Originally Posted by rvg:
We are the universal bogeyman.
Yup and our bogeys are ruining Venezuela. Its the newest in an old game of American subjugation in Latin America.

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LittleGrizzly 19:21 10-23-2008
I guess 21st century socialism is just as worthless as the original brand. And, of course, the people suffer.

Out of interest if there was a big finaincial crisis in say a big important country, say this country was conservative, would this mean that 21st century conservatism is worthless. side note in this hypothetical big important country people are suffering... losing thier homes ect.

will comment on the rest in a bit, just wanted to point out the easy flaw first... keeping up beating that strawman well your waiting for opposing views... i think you've almost got him!

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JAG 19:26 10-23-2008
... lol.

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Crazed Rabbit 19:27 10-23-2008
For the nteenth time, the sub prime mortgage fiasco came from a market heavily distorted by government regulations and benefits to certain companies.

Fannie and Freddie didn't show the failure of capitalism, because they are not free market companies.

EDIT: JAG, that all you got? I was at least expecting some hot air about Chavez standing up for the people and related BS.

CR

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Strike For The South 19:28 10-23-2008
Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly:
I guess 21st century socialism is just as worthless as the original brand. And, of course, the people suffer.

Out of interest if there was a big finaincial crisis in say a big important country, say this country was conservative, would this mean that 21st century conservatism is worthless. side note in this hypothetical big important country people are suffering... losing thier homes ect.

will comment on the rest in a bit, just wanted to point out the easy flaw first... keeping up beating that strawman well your waiting for opposing views... i think you've almost got him!
I would like to point out that the US is alot more socialist than people would like to believe. Im not saying a fully laissez-faire economy would work Im just saying giving rich people 700 billion dollars when they fail isn't what Adam Smith had in mind.

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Louis VI the Fat 20:45 10-23-2008
That other socialist oil state - Norway - strangely seems to be doing just fine. Meanwhile, capitalist Columbia is its usual unfortunate self.

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Ice 21:01 10-23-2008
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat:
That other socialist oil state - Norway - strangely seems to be doing just fine. Meanwhile, capitalist Columbia is its usual unfortunate self.
Just like a socialist America would do better than a capitalist Central African Republican, or "socialist" Sweden is doing better than capitalistic Bangladesh.

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Tribesman 21:58 10-23-2008
Wow thats amazing , an Opec country that is always pushing for a reduction in production of oil is producing less oil than it was in the late 1990s ...stunning isn't it .
Hold on maybe there is something in this ...errrrr......yeah there must be something .....errrrr.....late 1990s ....errrrrr....oh thats when Opec boosted production before cutting it again isn't it .
Hey rabbit you should have waited , not only did they vote to cut procuction again this month they are having another meeting next month on cutting production further ....if only you had waited you could have announced a bigger reduction in oil production for Venezueala

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CountArach 23:20 10-23-2008
Surely the man with more oil 20 years from now will be King?

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Crazed Rabbit 02:49 10-24-2008
Originally Posted by Tribesman:
Wow thats amazing , an Opec country that is always pushing for a reduction in production of oil is producing less oil than it was in the late 1990s blah blah blah
Nope, today's OPEC production levels are about the same as 1998. Not Venezuela, though.

And maybe he's pushing for quota reductions because he can't even reach his own.

Considering that selling oil to the US supports the entire country, I don't think Chavez'd be pumping ~1,000,000 bbl/day less than the quota by choice.

But maybe the article and all the reports about the struggling Venezuelan oil industry are wrong.

CR

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PanzerJaeger 02:56 10-24-2008
Originally Posted by Tribesman:
Wow thats amazing , an Opec country that is always pushing for a reduction in production of oil is producing less oil than it was in the late 1990s ...stunning isn't it .
Hold on maybe there is something in this ...errrrr......yeah there must be something .....errrrr.....late 1990s ....errrrrr....oh thats when Opec boosted production before cutting it again isn't it .
Hey rabbit you should have waited , not only did they vote to cut procuction again this month they are having another meeting next month on cutting production further ....if only you had waited you could have announced a bigger reduction in oil production for Venezueala
Somehow all of the other OPEC countries managed to make huge money during the run-up in prices, despite production cuts.

I don't know why you constantly dance around defending Chavez. His little experiment is an embarrassment to all who hold leftist views.

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Tribesman 03:15 10-24-2008
Wow Rabbit thinks that the country that pushed for oil production cuts in 1998 didn't want to cut oil production .
Nice thing about the quotas though , can you explain why Saudi which under US pressure boosted production still doesn't meet its quota ?
Then can you explain why many of the other Opec countries don't meet their quota either ?
And then can you explain why many of the other Opec countries have quotas that exceed their capacity ?
But then I suppose that might require a little too much thought for you to manage
Perhaps you could go for an easy one , just explain the basics of the quota system used by Opec

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yesdachi 21:35 10-23-2008
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat:
That other socialist oil state - Norway - strangely seems to be doing just fine. Meanwhile, capitalist Columbia is its usual unfortunate self.
I would attribute that to culture and leadership

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Viking 17:57 10-24-2008
Originally Posted by yesdachi:
I would attribute that to culture and leadership
So, you're basically saying that capitalism and socialism are going to yield the same results? Or that if Norway embraced capitalism, it would be utopia?

By all means, I don't like socialism, but this just silly.

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yesdachi 18:39 10-24-2008
Originally Posted by Viking:
So, you're basically saying that capitalism and socialism are going to yield the same results? Or that if Norway embraced capitalism, it would be utopia?

By all means, I don't like socialism, but this just silly.
It’s not silly. A good, positive culture will flourish under nearly any form of government as long as it has a good leader; Norway seems to have both a positive culture and a decent leader.

It also doesn’t hurt that they have a decent cash resource.

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Viking 19:12 10-24-2008
Originally Posted by yesdachi:
It’s not silly. A good, positive culture will flourish under nearly any form of government as long as it has a good leader; Norway seems to have both a positive culture and a decent leader.

It also doesn’t hurt that they have a decent cash resource.
The silliness wasn't pointed at you; but at CR. Sorry about that.

A cash resource you say; well, which cash resource does Sweden have (a country with 2x the population)? Iceland? Denmark?

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