A bit of help with Eprius?

[retep219]

Well, anyways, I just got Europa Barborum, and I decided to try out Eprius as my first faction. I'm a decent player at vanilla, but the Romani/Quarthadist just did not appeal to me. Eprius has its victory conditions in lands I normally like to expand to and, so far, a decent unit spread. A few questions:

1. The Epirus tech tree. Are the higher levels of military complexes worth it? What units do they provide? Do the unit types change as you cross the map? What does the "Recruitment of foreign natives" thing do?

2. Epirus units. What is a good army look like? What good units will I get? What should an army look like.

3. Do the Makedonian homelands work for me, or should I destroy them?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

1- In the homeland areas for Epeiros, it is very valuable to upgrade your factional MICs (barracks), you'll get your elites on the fourth or fifth level. The Thorakitai is pretty good and can be train in many Hellenistic regions on the fourth level.

The other MIC, the "'Recruitment of foreign natives' thing", is the foreign MIC. This building is needed to train units in foreign areas, ie non-Hellenic units. It is almost useless in your homeland, but necessary elsewhere.

2- Epeiros had pike armies, though Pyrrhos was known to mix a lot of non-pike heavy infantry into his main battle line.

3- Always destroy governments when you take a town, always. Just tear them down and build your own.

[raenor]

Epirus is one of my fav factions to play. It was the first faction I ever played in EB back in 0.8x cant remember which one exactly.

Usually when I start a campaign with them is to destroy everything in Taras and give it to the Romani, try and trade it for ceasefire/trade rights/minai. This is easier to do seeing as there is no FM there anymore. I also disband my navy and the Illyrian cavalry in my two mainland cities. Keep the elephants for now, they are very useful for taking down wooden walls early on.

I also take Pella in the first turn using the elephants. After that you need to consolidate the rest of mainland Hellas. To do this effectively you need to destroy the Makedonians field army, if you are good at field battles then this shouldnt be too much of a challenge, though if you are worried you can either try and trap them in Demetrias (sp?) or if you're lucky get them to siege Pella with your army inside. Once you have taken Demetrias and destroyed the Makendonian army you can probably disband your elephants as they are a big drain on your economy.

Some campaigns I get lucky and I see the Maks and Koinon duke it out for a few turns and reduce each others armies a bit before I have to tackle them.

As for armies MAA said it well, basically a successor army but with a few more heavy inf than the rest. Usually my armies consist of a solid core of phalanxes, usually Phalangitai Deutoroi (sp?) as their AoR is widespread, a few Pezhetaroi and one or two Chaonion Agema. Then I usually base my flanks on Thorakitai with one Theurophoroi (sp?) on each flank for flavour and to envelop the enemy. As for cavalry I quite like Thrakioi Podromoi (sp?) and also the Lonchorphoroi Hippeis (sp?) as they are fairly cheap and a very sexy unit. For missiles I just use a mix of slingers/archers, whatever the best you can get your hands on, recruit the Cretan mercs as they are the best archers around for you.

As for regionals good places to get decent ones close to you are the two regions above Pella and Byzantium, Serdike and argh I cant remember the other one, starts with a T! Anyways either of those are good places to pump out regionals for your armies.

Other than that just remember to destroy the foreign Govts when you take a town like MAA said and build economy buildings to make more money, mines are a must, always build the 1st tier mines everywhere you can!

Good luck with your Epirus campaign they are a great faction to play, lead Pyrrhus to the victory he deserved!

[gamegeek2]

Got a good Epeiros campaign going, see 1.1 AI progression.

Take out Makedonia and KH mainland provinces ASAP. After that, consolidate your empire and expand northward into the Thracian and Illyrian provinces, which are packed full of mines and excellent Thracian regional units. Scourcouw is particularly valuable, build a Lv. 4 government there.

The Mines in Pella and Dalminion are particularly profitable, though many other mines in the general area are above average in production. All mines are good anyways. Build them, set up a good trade network, and you'll be swimming in cash soon enough, able to finance many fullstacks.

[retep219]

Thanks a lot for the advice, guys.

Right now on my campaign:

I played med/med because I'm a total EB noob. I took Pellas with my elephants, disbanded them, and then marched south to Demtrius. Took it with some help from my spy...=D. Then, the Konion Hellion decided to bottle up the passes north of Athens, preventing me from getting to Attica, Euboea, or the Pelopennusus. (sp?) So right now I've just besieged Athens. Speaking of problems:

1. I really can't afford to replace any gov. buildings.
2. I can't retrain troops using Makedon buildings, we do not share barrack MIC's. (Though we do share foreign native MIC's, so I can atleast make and retrain those hoplite thingies)
3. I can't make elephants (Ok...just kidding. When can I make more of these though?)
4. Italy. My army is just sitting there, looking useless, because the Romani do nothing and I couldn't afford to keep my fleet around. Should I just ignore it and leave until later?
5. Those MIC's are too expensive. For that matter, all trade buildings are too expensive. At least I'm not in debt...yet. (2 denarii, with a profit of about 400 a turn) I hope Athens and Euboea will get my some money...

[Maion Maroneios]

Glad to hear you're having fun

1. Then don't, at least not until you get some decent income
2. You already figured that out, so destroy every Makedonian MIC, but not the native ones
3. Well, you actually train them. Anyway, you have to build a lvl 5 MIC, IIRC (the highest one)
4. I don't quite get you. Do you have an army sitting there and not knowing what to do with it, or is there a Romani army that looms outside of Taras? In the first case, just leave enough for a decent garrison and disband the rest. In the second one, train some units to do the same and let them come
5. If you start making money, you'll have no problem with building costs, believe me. When you conquer southern Hellas, you will soon swim in money

Hope this proved helpful,
Maion

[retep219]

An Italien clarification:

I have a fairly worthless army and a level I MIC in that Italian city. Sitting right on top of me are three pedites extrodenarii and a couple of triarii who are content to do absolutely nothing. Needless to say, I have no idea what to do. For one, why are the Romans just sitting there?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

As far as money goes, when playing EB you'll need to disband some/most of your armies/navies or conquers several settlements right off the bat. If you don't plan on holding Taras or invading Italia soon, that would be a good place to disband troops at.

[machinor]

Regarding elephants... you can train Elephantes Indikoi with lvl 5 factional MIC in your capital (and only there). If you have Athens, you should easily make enough money. Try to get a peace treaty with the Seleucids als they are a good trading partner in the Aigian Sea. You can also make peace with both KH and Makedonia and let them fight over the Peloponnes, like a sandbox experiment. :D
I personally am an Italian interventionist, so I always try to keep Taras and bring over an army from Hellas to Italy as soon as possible. Rhegion is one hell of a cashflow province since it already has completely built up mines (!!!) plus a good position for sea trade. When I successfully have Southern Italy under my control I usually expand into Sicily and take Syrakousai. After having achieved that, I usually have a nice Central Mediterranian Empire from where I can easily expand in every direction since I have a lot of provinces where I can train fairly good units (the phalangitai deuteroi are THE best compromise in the phalanx-section as far as cost/effectiveness goes) and which produce quite some revenue through mines and sea trade.

Man, I already feel like starting an Epeiros capaign right away. I love those green guys! :)


P.S.: Regarding units... use Illyrian Cavalry. They are reliable medium cavalry who do quite ok for their money with a fair charge and more important AP axes (!!) for close combat. Get them into close combat with other horsies and they'll chop down about every other cavalry in the region. They were the bane of the Romans in my Italian rampages. :) Retraining them can be a bit tricky if you're far away from your home provinces, though.

[retep219]

Thanks a lot for the advice! Right now, Athens is under siege. Judging from vanilla, it should benefit be greatly. My main Italian problem is that I can't afford a fleet...700 a turn in upkeep will put me in the red. (I disbanded my starting fleet and elephants so that I wouldn't go bankrupt) I'll try to hold on there...the Romans seem to enjoy doing nothing. As soon as I can get a fleet....well...at least my capital starts with a level II MIC. Should be helpful.

Two questions:

1. Who are the Yuezhi? I see them in signatures everywhere, but they are not a faction.
2. Are mines worth it? In vanilla mines cost 2000 for level I, 3500 for level II, and made only 350 denarii a turn.

[Conradus]

In vanilla mines were pretty cheap and you earned your investment back in 10-15 turns. Level one mines in EB cost about 8000 (or 14000? mnai) but they can earn you about 1500 a turn. Level two mines are only really usefull if you have a lot of cash already. They're very expensive, but double your income. If you're Epiros you're better of first conquering all those balkantowns with mines before upgrading your mines to lvl 2

And the Yuezhi used to be a faction, but they've been replaced by the Saka faction. They still are a nasty suprise somewhere in the 100ish BC when a couple of fullstack horse archers appear on the edge of the map.

[Lysimachos]

Level 1 mines cost 14000, take 8 seasons and earn 600 a turn (usually, in some provinces it is 1200 or even 1800, iirc; which also affects the output on level 2). This means, you have your money back in 8 + 24 = 32 seasons, which makes 8 years.
Level 2 mines cost 32000, take 20 seasons and earn 1500 a turn, so it takes 20 + 36 = 56 seasons (or 14 years) to get your money back, which is not that much in comparison to the length of the time frame.
I think Pella has one of the very lucrative mining regions with thrice the output of a normal mine and should be upgraded as soon as you can afford to (and own it, of course).

[Reverend Joe]

In regards to your Taras problem: if you are planning on focusing on Greece, just disband all the units in Italy and raze all the buildings you can. Think of it as a rebellious mercenary problem or an evacuation/pillage-fest if you are bothered by the unsportsmanlike aspect.

On the other hand, though, you're doing good if you can keep your income in the black so early; one of the toughest parts of EB is overcoming beginning-game debt.

[retep219]

In regard to my campaign:

I took Athens and am finally making money. Taras was lost to the Romans so took my by surprise with a siege. My army bested the last three Makedon generals at Corinth, in, ironically, a pyrhhic (sp?) victory. Currently, my newly retrained army is coming down south from the capital, intending to drive back the Hellenic League's attack on my newest province. Thermon is still rebel, and Euboea went rebel after the whole Makedon family tree was wiped out during the Battle of Corinth. All in all, I think I'm doing quite well.

[Conradus]

I just started a Epirus campaign yesterday. Managed to quickly conquer Pella and Demetrias and then get a ceasefire with Macedon. Then I saw Athens was hardly defended and I conquered it. In the meantime I built stone walls in Taras and I managed to defeat the first Roman army that attacked it in a heroic victory. Cavalery is no good when attacking stone walls
All in all, i'm doing just fine.

[retep219]

At last, Sparta itself has fallen and I am left with no rivals in Hellas proper. My plan now is to consolidate my holdings by taking Euboea and Thermon, then to conquer the east coast of the Adriatic Sea and invade Italy from the north. A few final questions:

Are the Getai a threat? Should I worry about them?

Is my "plan" half-decent?

How strong are the Romani, anyways?

[gamegeek2]

Ally with the Getai. They've been my BFF since about 260 at this point in my campaign...

[Conradus]

Ally the Getai, but I'd advise to keep some rebels between you. The AI tends to attack the human player if they border, even if allied.

The Romans are quite strong, but a good phalanx/heavy infantery army coupled with heavy cavalry to charge them from behind should easily dispatch them.

Conquering Rhegion might also be usefull if you can build stone walls there. Easy to defend then.

[machinor]

I usually conquer Italy from the South (if I'm Carthage or Epirus), since the cities down there are bigger and more lucrative (especially Taras, Rhegion and Syracuse) then the poor mudholes in the North. Apart from that you get some quite nice local units in Southern Italy, like Samnites, Lucanians and Campanian Cavalry. When combined with your factional phalanx troops you got yourself a fine versatile army.

[raenor]

For some reason I usually always head east whenever I play the Hellenic factions based in Greece (KH, Mak, Epirus).

Generally this is to let the Romani get the March of Time off (though I cant remember if Epirus get anything for that) and also because I like to fight the Romani later on when they can give you a good fight, Its nice to fight them when they get the Polybian reform.

If I do go Eastwards I sometimes still take Taras (if you lost it) and Rhegium, though later in the campaign, both are in good positions for trade and Rhegium has mines. I also usually take Siciliy and try and get ceasefires with Romani and Carthage after. When conquering the East I take all of modern Turkey and down into the Syria and then on to Egypt, makes for a very nice Empire with great trade. Plus that way you get some epic alliances against you, say Egypt + Selukia + Pontos, which makes the game quite challenging if you can only support 2 or so proper field armies.

Anyways, have fun and good luck.

[retep219]

Thanks for the assistance, everyone. An update, probably my last one.

Arretium/Arminium/Patavium/Bonnonia have all been taken from the Romans. I have also taken Segestica and the Illyrian province south of it, leaving eastern Illyria as a buffer for the Getai. I am steadily building up my barracks; within 10 turns I should have Level V barracks in my capital (elephants for the expensive win!) and Level IV barracks in Pellas (are Agrarian Assault Infantry any good?) which should allow me to build up a fairly decent second army to bash the hell out of "Arche" Seleukia. Not being able to retrain my main army is annoying; all the phalanxes are severly understaffed (though they all have silver chevrons) and I am forced to rely on mercenaries.

One weird thing: Why are "Pedites Extrodenarii" worse than principes? Seriously, they have only 10 attack versus 15 on the principes. And the extrodenarii only have 4 more defense points.

[teh1337tim]

dont judge by looking at the points
Spears get a penalty when facing infantry i believe -5 ?
so the developers gave it a +5 to balance out spear vs swords,

oh and basically you screwed urself 2 reforms :P no cataphracts or new bodyguards for east...pwoor seleukids and baktria and pahlava...

[Maion Maroneios]

are Agrarian Assault Infantry any good?

Hell yes! As Makedonia, I use them frequently during my Anabasis. They are excellent assault infantry as well as able skirmishers and ambushers. They only drawback is their lack of armor, but you can't have it all can you?

Maion

[We shall fwee...Wodewick]

I started an Epeiros campaign yesterday and now own all of greece, macedonia, a few thraikian towns to the north and east, coastal Illyria, south east Italia(taras and arpi) and Rome herself after 3 epic full stack battles.

It's brilliant. I would suggest using Thorakitai from the southern cities, Pezhetaroi from the Macedonian, some theurphoroi and prodromoi(I love these guys! They can destroy any unit in a good charge up the ) from you epriot cities, and then you can mix depending on where you are. i.e if you are in Italy, get some samnites and Bruttians; if Asia minor or Thrace is your cuppa tea, then get some good gallic or Thracians to supplement your force.

One question though, can I recruit Thrakoi Prodromoi and peltastai as I'm currently just hiring them as mercs in high quantities?

EDIT: What! Should I let Rome Live? What reformed units do I get? I didn't think I got any?!

[machinor]

As Epeiros I don't think you get any reforms. The March of Time reform is nice for Makedonia (Phalangitai Hysteroi), Pahlava (Late Cataphracts and Bodyguards) and Baktria (Late Cataphract Bodyguards). I think it also applies to Pontus and Armenia.

[We shall fwee...Wodewick]

Oh so I can continue my march up the peninsula. Onwards Ptolemaoios and avenge Pyrrhos!

[Cbvani]

Agranian assault infantry have AP axes.
I love them muchly.

[gamegeek2]

They are very nice niche infantry. I like to have a unit of them in my Hellenic mainland armies. However, they're in danger of being replaced by my Cordinau Orca. However, those are mainly in my Thraco-Celtic armies.

Speaking of which, get Scourcouw - it has most of the good Celtic regional units and the Scordisci Elite Infantry, which are some of the best, if not the best, infantry in the game; they beat Hypaspists. Check out the Recruitment Viewer to see what I mean.

Oh yeah, build a level 4 gov there. That'll also give those nice regionals 1 exp right off the bat.

[retep219]

For some reason the recruitment viewer has never worked....still can't figure out why. So, I'm screwed in that regard. Anyways, where is Scourcrow? The name does not sound familiar...

Anyways, 6 turns before I get my Level IV barracks in Pella and agrarian infantry. 4 turns until I get level V barracks in Ambrakia. Looking forward to it.

I've finally swept up the Roman armies that kept on be a nuisance. (I move towards Segesta and Bonnia and Arminium are both sieged. I break sieges, but the armies get away) That means Segesta...and Roma after that....are no longer safe.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Scorcouw is where Illyria, Pannonia, Thrace, and Dacia all come together. The city of Singidunum. Those guys from there are great.