When choosing between evil and evil, you can always choose good(franco debate)

[HoreTore]

In response to this by Bopa, in another thread:

Uhuh, you think the Catholic peasants of Spain should have gone along with the vehemently anti-Catholic Communists instead? Yeah they really sorted Russia out, what a load...

It was not a much of choice was it? Fascists or Communists?
Care to start up another thread about the civil war in Spain? I would be glad to discuss the Catholocism of Franco with you

....which I believe is nonsense. The fascists didn't have to choose fascism, they choose it because they supported it, end of story. Democracy was already invented, people knew about it, they could've stood up and fought for it instead of supporting loonies. But they were loonies themselves, and as such they supported the loonie.

Stop making excuses for dictators. Franco didn't choose to become a murdering sadist because he had no other choice, he became a murdering sadist because he was one. He could've chosen devote his life to the defense of freedom. He did not. He choose to devote himself to tyranny. There is nothing good about such men.

[Incongruous]

Umm, HoreTore, I was refering to the Spanish peasents, so go ahead if you want to call those poor buggers that "supported" Franco fascists, I suppose we can call those peasants in Russia that "supported" that peasant slaying git Trotsky Commies then?

Angry that communism ends in something very similar to fascism, what with all the mass murders and persecutions of certain sectors of society?

You could line them all up against one wall, they would be holding hands.

[Fragony]

Scum is scum and Franco was absolute scum.

[InsaneApache]

So what's the choice then? Fascism or communism? Or Fascism or democracy? Communism or democracy?

I'm a bit rusty on the Spanish Civil War, I don't recall anyone fighting just for democracy in it. I thought it was a straight left/right wing ideology thingy.

I'm happy to be educated though.

[CountArach]

So what's the choice then? Fascism or communism? Or Fascism or democracy? Communism or democracy?

I'm a bit rusty on the Spanish Civil War, I don't recall anyone fighting just for democracy in it. I thought it was a straight left/right wing ideology thingy.

I'm happy to be educated though.

The Socialist/Communists/Anarchists were the Democratically elected Government and hence they could claim to be fighting for Democracy. In reality though they could largely be considered the Stalinist wing of Spanish politics. The Nationalist Right revolted against the Government not long after the elections and as such the war was fought. It took on a heavily ideological tone for that reason.

[InsaneApache]

So to be clear, it's a choice between an authoritarian one party state and a totalitarian one party state. Not much to shout about.

I say damn both their eyes. Socialism and fascism, two cheeks of the same arse.

[HoreTore]

So what's the choice then? Fascism or communism? Or Fascism or democracy? Communism or democracy?

I'm a bit rusty on the Spanish Civil War, I don't recall anyone fighting just for democracy in it. I thought it was a straight left/right wing ideology thingy.

I'm happy to be educated though.

My point was that the choice wasn't just between fascism and communism. People knew about democracy, they knew about freedom. They could've fought for it. Just like both Franco and the communists could have done. There was nothing forcing anyone to become murderers, they became that because they wanted it.

[Incongruous]

My point was that the choice wasn't just between fascism and communism. People knew about democracy, they knew about freedom. They could've fought for it. Just like both Franco and the communists could have done. There was nothing forcing anyone to become murderers, they became that because they wanted it.

No HoreTore, you selected a quote of mine which was talking most specifically about the Spanish peasants, no one else. Just becasue they new democracy was "invented" does in no way mean hey could have supported it. It was not he democrats holding the big guns and threatening them with death...

A bit like the commies in Russia.

[KrooK]

I doubt that anyone can think that Spain has choosen bad.
Spanish communists if wasn't center fraction - they belong to far left part of socialism ideology. And people were afraid when after victory into elections they broke their promises and started changing country into soviet republic.
What would happen if Spain became another Soviet Republic? Country would be definitely much poorer than now and would loose much more people than under General Franco government.
Getting poor was typical for every country that became communist republic.
Look at Romania - before ww2 they were rich, nowadays.....

I think Franco was good leader. If I live into 30ties I would support him. He won civil war and then ....
he did not join ww2, increased country, unite it. And do you know why I respect him most - for the way he lost leadership. He knew that he is not immortal, so he coped about future of the country.
It prooves that he did not want be ruler for ... being ruler. Leadership was just a way to reach objective, not objective itself.