The Prometheus: Large Mafia Game [Concluded]

[ULC]

I thought it was obvious! He made a fit about not being mafia on day 2, he revealed yet was never killed, I was never pressured into any real argument by him, he never actually lynched me yet always suspected me "just enough", and he lost his investigation ability all of a sudden, when nerfing is very unheard of in mafia games midplay. So it had to be him, but I knew no one would believe me at all, so I had to try with the fewest alive players that Reenk could turn against me.

[pevergreen]

The "loss" of ability during midgame was a point, but think about it. If you have a detective claiming you to be mafia, you would leave him alive, if you killed him you just confirm what he is saying, as though while he is alive, he could be guilty.
Queens Gambit, with lynching a team mate, if I understand correctly.

[Reenk Roink]

Some post game thoughts:



A big thank you to Crazed Rabbit for hosting a wonderful game. One of the few games where the Mafia themselves were kept in the dark (I personally didn't understand the game mechanics fully until around Askthepizzaguy's lynch and Crazed Rabbit kept changing the dynamic a bit, keeping both the town an us on our toes). There were many times where I was frustrated and worried about our lack of power to do anything. Not many games can give a feeling of uncertainty to both sides



A big thank you to all those people who said nice things about me, but this win should really be attributed to seireikhaan. While I was planting 'clues' about being a detective early on (only Seamus Fermanagh and Sigurd Fafnesbane really caught on but that was well enough), the plan for me to reveal seireikhaan was the great 'khaan's genius. I was somewhat skeptical given on how long I would have to survive and explain my survival, but the sheer timing of it did away with much of that.

Askthepizzaguy also pulled one of the most brilliant (if illegal ) moves I have seen in Mafia getting Chaotix27 to essentially lynch himself. Again, I had tried to get a counter bandwagon going on him to save seireikhaan, but Askthepizzaguy's manipulation was the reason that became successful.

Also, we pulled off a close win, but let's remember we were without KukriKhan. Had he not had computer problems, we would have, to put it somewhat bluntly though realistically, wiped the floor with the town. My teammates were superb and I was just along for the ride.



I thought the detective reveal went very well (well... just look at the results ). Again, the critical decisions were made by seireikhaan who 1) told me to expose himself and 2) suggested that I only get one investigation every two days.

The latter decision especially turned out to be critical, as I did not name a large base of "innocent" which would have hurt and it fit in so neatly with the game mechanics (the Mafia were essentially killing at a half kill per round rate the entire game, obviously lower at the ends and higher at the middle). YLC seems to have thought that mechanic suspicious from the start, but frankly, that was the aspect of my reveal that I thought was most solid and convincing. I had very cogent arguments ready to support it had I needed to.

Obviously, the former decision by seireikhaan worked out wonders. Because the reveal was so early and not forced at all, it seemed almost impossible to the town that the Mafia would take the risk to fake reveal. There always seemed to be that sentiment of "Oh, if Reenk Roink is lying we can just lynch him later" that persisted and the town got comfortable. Although YLC seemed to be immediately suspicious of my living, even calling it a "...base method..." and suggesting it should have been obvious to the town, but I don't agree with that assessment at all. The fact is, Mafia have allowed detective's to live in the past before. I know I did in Ichigo's Rise of the Mob for a long time. I had many arguments ready (and I alluded to it many times before) of my continued survival, which were based on the fact that a living detective does become very suspicious at the end, and it would be a high risk but also very high reward thing to leave him alive to soak suspicion in the endgame. I believe this argument to be very plausible (it would be quite convincing to me had I been a townie) and especially given the fact that

Losing ability to do investigations may have been a great boost to the risky but very potentially rewarding letting the detective live by getting rid of the risk. Firstly, the Mafia was indeed nerfed. When we were four we could kill every round. When we lost Askthepizza guy, it went down to two kills every three rounds. When only I remained I had one kill every two rounds and the fact that my success rate was not 100% (but over 50%). I believe there were very good reasons to believe the mechanics of my 'role'.



I spent a lot of time making potential arguments and devising stratagems, but many did not play out. Now, I cannot reveal them to you (I want to be able to use them in later games ), but what surprised me is how little I had to do in the last round. YLC, who was already becoming erratic the round before, just became so damn suspicious in the endgame. No offense but you made a ton of mistakes that round, whereas you could have really killed me had you stayed more reasoned and kept a constant demeanor. I also will echo that had you had suspicions of me early, it would have been wise to bring them to public earlier on, as I would then have been pressed and had to offer defenses. I ended up only being pressed once, by you in the last round, and the way you did it allowed me to remain laid back and seem so much more innocent in contrast to you.

You had the right idea YLC, but your tactics (the secretive and illegal messages, the lying about roles, and the end of game behavior) left a ton of suspicion on you. I think you would have gotten the town to victory had you played it right. There was just a ton of time to do so...

Also, where did I make that fit in round two?



One thing I am shocked at is that nobody saw the potentially fatal oversight I made. My lesson of "always trust in the stupidity of the Mafia" holds true, especially for mistake prone me. Still nobody has found it, hell if you look carefully, I tell you where I did it!




I am very proud of being a small part of this Mafia victory. Obviously most credit belongs to seireikhaan and Askthepizzaguy but we really pulled of something special here. We lasted 11 rounds (most Mafia don't last 6 in similarly sized games) and we only got two Wrath of God's. Definitely has to rank among the greatest victories ever.



Lastly, I would just like to say that what happens in an individual Mafia game should stay in it. We shouldn't bring too much background, just the basic analysis of behavior (which really isn't a great tool I think). This is a reminder to YLC and White_eyes:D to and to the rest of you not to lynch me instantly of the next games.

[White_eyes:D]

I'm still going to hound White Eyes in every game until he cries Uncle

I now know why Khann killed me earlier......because I had voiced(if you check my posts I suspected almost every Mafia) and seemed to be more dangerous then YLC...

But the reason why I thought it was Reenk back then, after I died I think....was HE WAS CRAZY Enough to pull it off and would be "town hero" therefore unlynchable but also he had never seemed suspicious enough to lynch(hell he even played pro-town role how I did but better, Sigurd even was calling him the 'towns savior'...)

But you YLC had loads of evidence against you, the votes for the townies, the secret role and even joining in with Reenk on many lynchs by his side

You just need to face facts.....we got wiped out by much better Mafia players.....that's it

[boudica]

wow! congratulations mafia!
I have only lurked my way through the last couple of lynchings and have yet to play a mafia game myself, but have thoroughly enjoyed reading up on your recent shenanigans and - though still a little fuzzy about how this all actually works :D - really look forward to playing in a game with you guys soon.
B

[Andres]

Congrats mafia

What a way to come back, Reenk

Thnx for hosting, CR

And from now on, my credo in mafia games will be : when in doubt, lynch 'khaan

[seireikhaan]

Congrats mafia

What a way to come back, Reenk

Thnx for hosting, CR

And from now on, my credo in mafia games will be : when in doubt, lynch 'khaan

Jots note to self...

When in doubt, kill Andres...

[Thermal]

GG!

[seireikhaan]

wow! congratulations mafia!
I have only lurked my way through the last couple of lynchings and have yet to play a mafia game myself, but have thoroughly enjoyed reading up on your recent shenanigans and - though still a little fuzzy about how this all actually works :D - really look forward to playing in a game with you guys soon.
B

One thing to note- these sorts of Shenanigans are usually considered unusual in most mafia games. I'm afraid if you expect a performance like this every time, you'll be disappointed. Not that mafia isn't insanely addictive fun when it doesn't happen, however.



Ok, folks, here's a basic rundown of all my important PM's between myself and CR/Reenk/Pizzaguy. Note there will be some slight omissions where some chat and email addresses were. I think it would be rather rude for me to hand those out.


First, of course, The Role PM(of which I based Reenk's role PM):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You are the Fanatic/The Agent.

It is your duty to stop The Prometheus from returning to earth at whatever cost necessary.

Your plans to cause mechanical failure have come to naught.

But you have more tools. You smuggled some highly effective Department of Environment Defense tools on board. They allow you to have control over the minds of people you use it on, at great cost of the target's intelligence and higher brain functions. In short, it is an effective device for quickly and brutally brainwashing a person.

You can use it twice in one night, and the targets will join your faction and assume your goal of stopping The Prometheus. If you are incapacitated, your followers will continue.

You will win when the number of your followers and you is equal to or greater than the number of untainted crew.

OOC: I won't be able to answer PMs for 7+ hours, but you have about ~24 hours to send in who you want to target tonight.

CR

Initial responses from Pizzaguy and Reenker after their conversions:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Greetings. The Agent has chosen you to be his diciples. You are now on The Agent's side, and your goal is to stop The Prometheus.

The Agent is makaikhaan.

Crazed Rabbit

Good! It's about time I got to be a badass bad guy!

I could definitley get down with being a wacky enviro-freak. Makaikhaan and Reenk Roink, do you guys mind if I play the part of a supertownie?

Basically I will be trying my best to investigate and be all town-like, really out there. I will do what I did in previous games and not care about being lynched, because there are 3 of us.

I want to establish my pro-town strategy. Would you guys prefer I kept quiet? it's out of character for me to do so.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Greetings. The Agent has chosen you to be his diciples. You are now on The Agent's side, and your goal is to stop The Prometheus.

The Agent is makaikhaan.

Crazed Rabbit

Good! It's about time I got to be a badass bad guy!

I could definitley get down with being a wacky enviro-freak. Makaikhaan and Reenk Roink, do you guys mind if I play the part of a supertownie?

Basically I will be trying my best to investigate and be all town-like, really out there. I will do what I did in previous games and not care about being lynched, because there are 3 of us.

I want to establish my pro-town strategy. Would you guys prefer I kept quiet? it's out of character for me to do so.

Hello.

1) makaikhaan: Thanks for choosing me sir.

2) Askthepizzaguy: How do you know that I was also chosen to be a disciple? My PM said nothing about you, only makaikhaan. This is very suspicious. (If this is legit, which it probably is, sorry, but people have tried to play me MANY times, and I am paranoid so ) To your question I suggest staying as you are. Do you usually get lynched for being so vocal though? If so, maybe tweak it a bit.

3) I have to warn you that I bring a lot of baggage when playing these games. Essentially, people will want to vote for me for things I did in the past, and because I will never be able to conform to a certain behavior pattern. Hopefully the new faces won't know about this.

Just remember that in that way I may be a source of trouble for you, but then again, I'd gladly take the attention away from you gentlemen so you can carry out our plans.

I am going to continue to do a shallow roleplay (my lawyer, asking for an agent, that kind of stupid stuff) while being a run of the mill townie. That is, unless you want me to do something else.

This was very early on, a big ol' discussion over PM about early strategem:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hi Mr. Pizzaman,

I chose you and Reenk for specific purposes. I would like you to be the supertownie for us. Reenk is to keep alive for awhile, but I feel must be a sacrificial lamb eventually. My plan was for us to wait a while, maybe three to five rounds, depending on whether there are any kills, and have you reveal as detective, finding a "guilty" result on Reenk. I plan to keep a periodic voting pattern on Reenk, while your reveal would ideally put yourself a distance aways as well. If there's another detective, we can simply claim there were two detectives, something that's not totally impossible. Granted, its risky, but that was ideally my plan. If the detective is dead, well, that's all the better. However, if you think its complete garbage, feel free to let me know and we can work on something else.

As for killing, I do not believe we can kill. My role PM states nowhere that I or any of my followers can kill. However, I can continue to brainwash people to follow me. Unfortunately, according to last night's role PM, my brainwashing equipment was damaged after I got Reenk, due to having to hide it because of a scuffle which apparently occurred nearby his room. So, from now on, its only one person per night.

Oh...

I dunno about the reveal as detective idea. If there is a detective, I can almost guarantee that we will get called on that as nonsense.

Me lying will totally damage my credibility, and that's our trump card, supposedly. I don't know if me being supertownie will even work, some people aren't familiar with me. It's a big gamble, but it's my only tactic.

What we can do is maybe... makaikhaan, if you reveal yourself as a roleblocker, and say that you've been blocking Reenk Roink for several nights, that could explain the lack of kills.

Of course, we'd lose Reenk Roink that way, and that's not good. The good thing is, you get a new disciple every night.

As a better alternative, we could use your next disciple as a scapegoat instead of Reenk Roink. That way Reenk is still on board for a secondary tactic, and we can use the next disciple as a willing sacrificial lamb.

I could use my deductive reasoning to perhaps slam Reenk Roink at some point, killing him and perhaps, afterwards, me in the process. All this directs attention away from Makaikhaan.

A strategy of hiring disciples and using credibility tactics to damage others, and have makaikhaan never be the object of attention, that makes sense to me.

If we can only convert one disciple per night, then it doesn't matter how many disciples we have that are alive. It doesn't reduce the number of conversions.

We can accelerate the strategy by targeting true townies as well, so that townies will be the ones who end up dying the most. This whole idea is a work in progress. Your thoughts?

First, lets not assume we have unlimited conversions. I started at two per night, and that was hacked down to one by the first day round. Ideally, I'd like only one person to have to be used as a scapegoat, because I honestly suspect that we'll be bereft of conversions sometime in the nearby future.

You're probably right, in retrospect, about the detective thing. Maybe we could get the next convert to do so? I'm honestly not sure though about this whole thing. I'm thinking there might very well not be any night kills in this game, and a role blocker might be called very much into question. If there starts to be some kills from somebody else, then it might be a plausible strategy.

At the moment, lets let the town lynch some poor random guy and ponder future strategy in the meantime. Keep up the super-townie persona for the time being.

That's true, we don't know for sure we have unlimited conversions. However, converting people is typical of a cult/zombie style game where one side does not kill, but converts everyone to his cause.

Knowing Crazed Rabbit, he possibly views environmentalists as mindless wackos who convert everyone to their silly viewpoint, I can almost guarantee we have a cult game on our hands instead of a mafia game.

I'm going to deduce that at some point, and use mafiascum.org as a reference to prove that this is indeed a cult-based game, not a mafia game, assuming there are no kills.

We have to assume there's vigilantes, doctors, etc. on town's side, because a cult game is usually massively unfair to town. They can't stop the cultists once it gets to a certain point. I am willing to bet town has the ability to block us, reveal us, and vigilante us, for balance.

Think about it... how could town win if they had no roles, and we added 1 disciple every night? tomorrow night makes 4... town can only kill one... we add one, they kill one... eventually we win.

This is obviously not how it's going to work. Assuming we cannot kill, ever, we have to keep converting. Which means that town can kill us somehow besides the lynch. I assume vigilantes aplenty, at least one, maybe two detectives, and definitley doctors or even revive roles.

Town has to have some kind of special advantage. Some townies got role pms. That means we are dealing with a town with a role advantage over us, because none of us ostensibly has any ability to do anything except blend in and convert. I have to assume that we can keep converting or else mafia is extraordinarily weak.

I deduce, as you might, that we can continue to convert every night, but we will be blocked, investigated, and vigilante'd to death. I could be wrong, in a few nights we will see.

We really need to stop private messaging, it's a dead giveaway.

Please use my email or instant messager. We have to stop talking to each other via PM. I know town is looking for who is private messaging.

After a while where we essentially just used the quicktopic, me and Reenk with a slight PM exchange discussing his reveal:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I will post a finished version of this to the town. Need a lot of help with Role PM and name and some help in filling up your guilty result.

--------

OK, town, listen to me very carefully. We must lynch seireikhaan this round he is the Original Agent.

I know this because I am The [role name here] (Detective/Cop/Investigator role) and I investigated him last night.

Customary proof out of the way:

Original Role PM:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Greetings

[PM contents here]

...your goal is to stop the Agent.

Crazed Rabbit

Every investigation prior to last nights:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Investigation 1: (round 3)

You sneak into the cabin of Ichigo and find him sound asleep on his bunk. Working nimbly, you rummage through his belongings, take a look at what literature he reads, and examine his computer for files and communication logs, but are unable to find the slightest bit of evidence that he is involved in the sabotage of the ship or associated with the tyranny. In your expert conclusion, Ichigo is innocent.

Investigation 2:

You sneak into the cabin of pevergreen and find him sound asleep on his bunk. Working nimbly, you rummage through his belongings, take a look at what literature he reads, and examine his computer for files and communication logs, but are unable to find the slightest bit of evidence that he is involved in the sabotage of the ship or associated with the tyranny. In your expert conclusion, pevergreen is innocent.

Investigation 3:

You sneak into the cabin of Seamus and find him sound asleep on his bunk. Working nimbly, you rummage through his belongings, take a look at what literature he reads, and examine his computer for files and communication logs, but are unable to find the slightest bit of evidence that he is involved in the sabotage of the ship or associated with the tyranny. In your expert conclusion, Seamus is innocent.

Investigation 4:

You sneak into the cabin of YLC and find him sound asleep on his bunk. Working nimbly, you rummage through his belongings, take a look at what literature he reads, and examine his computer for files and communication logs, but are unable to find the slightest bit of evidence that he is involved in the sabotage of the ship or associated with the tyranny. In your expert conclusion, YLC is innocent.

Investigation 5:

You sneak into the cabin of Mithrandir and find him sound asleep on his bunk. Working nimbly, you rummage through his belongings, take a look at what literature he reads, and examine his computer for files and communication logs, but are unable to find the slightest bit of evidence that he is involved in the sabotage of the ship or associated with the tyranny. In your expert conclusion, Mithrandir is innocent.

Investigation this round:

You sneak into the cabin of makaikhaan but find his bed empty. There seems to be no sign of him in the room at all. Scanning the titles on his bookshelf, you find all sorts of books on mechanical engineering and aeronautics. Much more disturbing are the books that are placed behind these: manuals on hypnosis and copies of well known extremist literature such as The Omnivore's Dilemma, Manifestos on the Future of Food and Seed and The Ownerless Planet. Moving on to his computer you notice that most of the files have been encypted, but from what little information is available, you gleam that the agent makaikhaan came on board with a mission to brainwash the entire crew. When the necessary equipment malfunctioned, he moved with the two followers he had corrupted to murder the crew for his cause. Unfortunately, the aliases of his disciples were encoded and you were not able to determine their identities. With emotions of fear, anger, and hope, you leave makaikhaan's cabin...

The fact is, seireikhaan/makaikhaan/'khaan/khaan has been an extremely slippery Agent and obviously was always very worried about surviving in all those previous rounds. We can't put the rope around his neck only for him to get away again!

As for me, at least listen to me for this round and lynch seireikhaan/makaikhaan/'khaan/khaan now. I have hinted at my role before (like many will recall I did before as the hobo and the serial killer) and tried to get you guys from lynching innocents. Hell, do a behavior analysis on me, whatever it takes to convince you. Just lynch seireikhaan! You have my word that I am the detective and that I got the investigation that seireikhaan is guilty.

For the Prometheus!

His response to my response:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hmmm... I like it. My only issue, of course, is the NAME of our little detective. As my role was the Agent...

Hmm...

How about "the deputy"? Strikes a similar tone to me, anyways.(also, I thesaurus'd "agent )

What do you think about that?

Oh, one more thing I've been pondering? Do you think we'd be able to get away with a "investigate every other night" deal? My only thing is, its going to be tough in the long run, because we likely will be cut down to one kill every two or three nights, theoretically giving a lot of "investigations" left. I think we could sell it well, given that the agent's been losing a lot of kills over the last few nights.

The Deputy sounds good, like a follower of the captain.

The idea of the every other round investigations is perfect and it fits very nicely with the game's mechanics. Now if only I didn't exonerate Mithrandir in the thread.

I'm still kinda lost on the initial role PM, can you make one up based on your Agent one?

One last thing, while at this point I'm fairly certain that there were no other roles besides yours, the way Ichigo posts still hints at the possibility that he is the detective. Of course, but now he should have said something more concrete.

Finally, I come up with a role PM for him:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ok, I think I might have something.


You are the Deputy

You are James Sholken's most trusted adviser. You were sent with the Prometheus to ensure it's safe and productive efforts. Your intelligence and adaptability made you perfect for the job.

Before leaving, Sholken confided in you that an environmental agent may have been able to sneak aboard the Prometheus and attempt to sabotage its mission. If there is such a threat, it is your job to stamp it out.

Every other night, you may investigate the cabin of one astronaut. The off nights, you are required to run maintainence and support for the Prometheus to ensure it runs at optimum efficiency.


How's that look?

Haha, great stuff! I think we're just about done with the reveal, I'll custom tailor it if needed according to the posts when it's time.

One last thing, I wanna test out next round a little bit before exposing. The fact is, the earlier I expose, the longer I have to stay alive, and detectives who rat out Mafia don't stay alive long (without help). If there is a significant movement to lynch someone else, I'll hold off one round. That will also solve my Mithrandir problem (how in one round I went from suspecting him to not).

The great thing is revealing somewhat in the middle shouldn't be SO suspicious in your case as you get a bunch of votes early and then the town changes their mind later. I can just use the excuse "I'm making sure he doesn't get away".

Whatdya think?

Hmm.

No, I believe it will be best to throw me out as soon as possible. The litany of reasons for you to have not investigated me by now is starting to run spare. If we put it off much longer, its quite possible that the town will start questioning the reveal. Again, I think it will be best to generate the "gotcha" feel to the round. I, of course, shall play my part and try to sabotage your efforts. By throwing me out right off the bat, we should have two things happen:

1) Generate an authentic feeling to the round. Any detective at this point who got a guilty result would almost assuredly rush to the thread to bust the scum.

2) By the inevitable bandwagon against me, the town should be left relatively lost for ideas for the next round, as it will be impossible to tell who any mafioso would have been because it was obvious I was cooked. A town lost for ideas bodes well for the mafia. And you, of course, should be in a strong position to steer the town to its doom.

Of course, I'm assuming the writeup will be made in a similar style to that of ATPG's. If we get the "guaranteed guilt" indicator, as well as a kill to boot during the lynch, the fact that we have only one mafioso left should be relatively inconsequential. You just need to play your part well, and the town should drive itself off the proverbial cliff.

Anyways, that should be about all the important parts to cover the gaps in the quicktopic.

EDIT: Who put the red face as the smilie for the overall topic?

[Askthepizzaguy]

To the followers of the Glorious Light:

Although some of you have been converted against your will, you will no doubt understand the logic of our position now. So, without further ado, welcome.

You are hearing our thoughts due to a strange piece of technology that we acquired from the land rapists, a device that connects to a computer and allows the transmission of thoughts from one mind to another. It is a device the locusts of Earth used to create their information network, and upgrade the world wide web into a kind of telepathic communications system. We knew that this system would be their undoing.

Able to read their thoughts and assess their plans, we were able to outmaneuver them in the war which brought us to power. Then, we were able to torture enough scientists to convert the technology into a mind-altering device. All we do is hook it up to your skull and electromagnetic waves pulse at the exact frequency of the synaptic activity of your primitive brains, and eventually your former lives are erased, with only your memories intact. Your reasoning center is enhanced, and your emotive response is eliminated. Now, you are able to see pure logic.

Your primitive emotions and free will gone, you now are a blank slate, ready to hear of the word of our glorious prophet, the one known as Makaikhaan, who is called Seireikhaan. I would tell you not to be afraid, but I know your minds are now free from the confinement of animal impulses... you now function not unlike your vaunted computer systems. It is an irony that this technology that we know to be destructive and wasteful is actually the height of artificial intelligence. But using this as a model, we are able to restructure your minds and create actual intelligence where there was once only disorder.

You are now all followers of the glorious light, and you are all connected to the main computer core. It is the will of our great prophet Seireikhaan that you now instruct this computer to alter course towards the great light.

This ship and it's terrible technology, stolen resources, and plans for otherworldly excavation will no longer serve the primitive plans of the destructive ones. It is now going to be used as a symbol of our superior wisdom. We will show the entire planet Earth what it means to be great, what it means to be logical, rational, and intelligent. The only correct course is towards the light.

Along the way, I encourage you to utilize your remaining time as proper followers of the light would, and not stray from your recommended meditation and propaganda literature. You will unfortunately remain confined to the cryogenic chambers for the duration of this mission, as our great disciple Reenk Roink will be maintaining your cryostatic suspension and transmitting messages of our incredible victory throughout the cosmos. We can command the ship from within these chambers, wasting no further resources, contributing nothing more to the pollution of our realm.

______________


We are now approaching the surface of the sun, our great light and beacon of hope. This ship and everything on it, including your physical bodies, will all be recycled by the incredibly efficient fusion process, and converted into pure energy and light. Indeed, you will embody the very shining wisdom we teach.

This wretched hull is beginning to deteriorate. Finally it will be cleansed. And to all of you who accompanied me on this important journey,

Welcome to the glorious light.

[KukriKhan]

GG, everyone. Congrats to my cohorts, who had to do without me during critical phases.

I think I can speak for most of us in awarding the title "Master of Deceit" to Mr. Reenk, the moniker "Master of Obfuscation" to Askthepizzaguy, and "Senior Master Strategist" to 'khaan. With the role and powers ambiguities, and a team member drop-out mid-game, the cards were stacked against the 'informed minority' this time - yet they snatched victory from the gaping maw of defeat. Fine work.

Very fine game, Crazed Rabbit. You designed play so flexible* that the course of the game could have taken any of 5-6 paths. Very unusual game-dynamics.

*I admit I had no idea what my job was, once recruited, except to be part of a lynch voting block. Of course, my dead computer saved me the agony of trying to figure it out. :)

[Askthepizzaguy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I do want to apologize for crossing the line, talking to living players about the game while dead. It was an honest mistake and it could have gotten mafia awarded some kind of penalty, possibly single-handedly losing the game for us. I will be much more cautious in the future. I was caught up in playing hard for my team and I did not read the rules properly. Even though I was not the only person who overlooked this rule, I cannot deny responsibility. Ignorance is no excuse. Apologies to Chaotix and YLC, who I really really attempted to confuse in this game. It pained me to have to lie to either of you, and it will make you trust me less in the future.

Good job Ichigo, for never trusting me for a second.

Town, I have to say, we couldn't have done it without you. In spite of me getting myself lynched pretty good, I believe some of the better stumbles came from town turning on itself and allowing emotions to impact your judgment. There is no reason why Reenk should have lived. He was never killed by mafia, nor attempted, he claimed his role was now useless which could have been a lie even if he were town, to try to protect himself. He could have been converted after he revealed, and he could have been mafia all along, which he was. This gambit has been played before, and I was worried about it from the start but could not come up with a better strategy. I have been on the losing side of town before, and in one famous instance had victory in the palm of my hands and dropped the ball due to a certain whispering in my ear by El Diablo. I know what it is like to make the wrong choices. Best bet for town is to stick with your original plans, and not be persuaded by drama. Mafia will try to confuse you by being overly dramatic, with lies so bold they could only be the truth even bigger lies. Townies will probably not cause drama on their own. Stick to dispassionate, reasoned strategies, and remember that no one is innocent until the host says they are.

And I just want to say that if I am trying to help the town in the future, that doesn't mean I am mafia. Unfortunately some residuals are left over from previous games and I am sure many will try to lynch me right away. That's fine, but I have no greater chance of being mafia than anyone else, and you could end up hurting yourselves based on a prejudicial line of reasoning. I will be town more often than I am mafia, so you have to allow for the chance that I am trying to help. I'll also try to be less talkative in the future, apparently few people even wanted to read all my gobbletygook, so it wouldn't help me if I were town anyway.

yada, yada, yada.

[Chaotix]

Well, damn. Apologies to YLC, but ya probably wouldn't have been lynched if you weren't so damn suspicious.

For the record, let it be known that Reenk was my number 1 suspect before and for a short amount of time after he revealed as an investigator. There was this one post that he made early in the game (can't find it now) where he said that he wished the agent picked him to be mafia, and complained to the agent that he wasn't picked for the job.



I mean, come on! I jumped on him after that, that's when I started suspecting him.

I guess I'm just too gullible. ATPG basically convinced me to get myself lynched.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Blast. Good game guys, especially mafia.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I honestly thought that YLC did a good job explaining himself at the end. He would have convinced me if I were town. However, I'm gullible.

Not so much the player's actions, but town's strategy was at fault. I believe deduction could have won the game.

Edit: Apparently I'm incapable of having final thoughts.

[pevergreen]

Looking back at it, I agree with the mafia. They played very well indeed.

Sorry to Seamus, for suspecting him.

I should have been more critical of Reenk. I was planning to counter claim him if his first directed lynching didnt feel right to me.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Notes on the Process:

People have mentioned the unusual dynamic, usually positively, which makes me happy, because I was literally making up some of the game as I went along. I'm also pleased that some old-time veterans returned and made the game so memorable.

My original vision was for a game with no killing by the mafia, just lynches/imprisonment. The mafia would act as a voting block, and there would be no other roles. I made a bunch of excel calculations to find the probability of a mafia or town win with various numbers of townies and mafiosos, and came to 4 mafia and 18 townies as giving the fifty-fifty split of townie/mafia victory. But the game had 23 people because Kukri signed up an I didn't want to reject him (What if I had? The mafia would have had a different convert on night 2, likely one who's computer didn't crash. The whole game would have changed).

Also, my schedule at the start of the game was hectic - I wrote post #34, starting the game, right before a seven hour cross-state motorcycle trip.

So for the first two nights that was how the game went. And then I got a PM from Reenk asking if they would be able to kill someone. And I realized that my original plan would be awfully boring and difficult for the mafia.

So I thought, sure, why not? And so they began killing people, one at a time. I also decided that losing their members would mean less kills, and no kill right after a mafia member was lynched. Those decisions were mainly made as they came up. The rate was 1 kill/night (k/n) when they had four people, 2/3 k/n when they had three people and was originally going to fall to 1/2 k/n when they got down to two people, but I figured that since Kukri was being WoG'd they shouldn't suffer for it. When they got to one person the rate would still be 1/2 k/n, if the last was The Agent, and 1/2 k/n but less than 100% chance of killing if the last mafia member was not The Agent.

A lot of the game was unknown to the mafia, like the players. For example, the fact that guiltiness would be revealed after a lynch was a surprise to the mafia. When lynched, the non-Agent members had a 50% chance of killing a random townie. The Agent had a 100% chance. But the mafia saw this and adapted amazingly, using it as a central part of their gambit.

Not dropping the kill rate after Kukri got thrown out the air lock didn't really help, though, as they soon played their Queen's gambit and went down to one member left anyway. I originally put the Thrown Out the Airlock category in the write-ups as a joke, but then figured it would be a good idea for the WoG'd of people.

Also, there were some clues to be found in my write-ups, though it seemed only the mafia saw them. Askthepizzaguy actually brought attention to them. I was probably unfair in helping the town out a bit, or trying to, as nothing really came of it. And the mafia can claim an even greater victory.

It was very fun to host and read all the goings-on, so thanks for joining everybody!

Oh, and YLC's PMs from right before I stopped the last day's voting are genuine.

Crazed Rabbit

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hints?

Maybe they are worth reading all my long-winded posts to find.


Perhaps not.

[Mithrandir]

Thanks for a fun game.

Did camels return to earth with the maffia's victory?

[Sigurd]

Alright ... you got me good. I will admit to it.

I can't say I never had suspicions towards a former Loke, but being town and not knowing that there was no pro-town roles, forced my hand.
I firmly believed that there were more roles than mafia, and since the dead was allowed to reveal stuff in the thread, but none did, I dared not believe Reeink Roink was a Mafioso.

The compliments was suspicious Reenk ... I knew something was up with that. I foiled several games for you in the past and I guess this evens some of that score .

The so called queen's gambit was a masterstroke and I will not draw any credit from seireikhaan in this. He took our Sith stratagem that worked so brilliantly in Star Wars mafia to another level.

That mafia masterminds are willing to lay down their role life for the success of their team speaks of class.

[Reenk Roink]

The first compliment towards you was genuine and without and real strategy. I wanted to explain to the town that some people should not be lynched so early and made ambiguous in their innocence and used you as an example. The compliment was just going off on a tangent.

The second compliment to you was as planted as the pevergreen reference (which I knew certain townies, including yourself would pounce on ). Take it as somewhat of a taunt for falling into the trap. In fact, I was a bit unsure if I was being too obvious, which obviously now I was, but no harm done. It brought me great satisfaction that you were one of my greatest supporters Siggy Fafster.

I am still shocked that you or anyone else did not catch the huge contradiction. Given that some of you go through these threads with a fine comb, I was about ready to give up when I was exposed. I reference both the blunder and my hopelessness in the QuickTopic.

I will just tell you now. Go and read my innocent reveal PM's. I thought they were pretty good, and indeed, except for one detail, they were perfect. Now go and read the attempted kill on Ichigo the first time. Notice I reference each crew's cabin and Crazed Rabbit has Ichigo sleeping in a communal room of a barracks quadrant.

At first, I thought Crazed Rabbit was just putting clues in to help to town, but then he told me that he referenced the barracks quadrant earlier (in Beefy187's death). Looks like I wasn't reading close enough, but neither was the town.

[shlin28]

Great ending for a great game!