The Prometheus: Large Mafia Game [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

At least he's not Scruffy the Janitor.

[Andres]

Vote: Reenk Roink.

Welcome back.


As to why there were no kills; frankly, I'm quite surprised nobody has accused me of being mafioso right away, given my, ahem, track record. I'd say the mafia probably has one kill, and whomever was supposed to submit it pulled a "khaan", so to speak. I'm gonna guess that there's likely a serial killer who would give us a 2nd kill. However, maybe he has some other ability and used it night one?

Well, if you insist...

I think 'khaan is mafia

Btw, why the pre-emptive defense, 'khaan?

Well suspect behavior in any round is something we need to look for. I'm not one of those who says that well, round one is useless, so let's not bother playing seriously.

First of all, you're playing while invisible. Maybe that's normal, typical behavior for you, but frankly it tells me that you don't want us to know what you're doing. You're posting something silly and distracting, and now engaging in this debate with me, rather than working with me to find the mafioso.

Maybe you got a pm or something telling you to behave this way, but according to previous games, this is all typical behavior for you. So I have to assume you're just being yourself. My point is, as Askthepizzaguy observing Ichigo's behavior, you're acting unhelpful and suspiciously. Why would you do that, in any round?

Round one may usually be a wash for town, but it becomes even harder for town to gain any play whatsoever when certain townies are being uncooperative. Are you town, or are you mafia?

I assume you're still town, but you're not playing a very good town. Which means, given the option, maybe we should keep you alive, because you're a townie and we want to lynch a mafia. But still, if we run out of options in later rounds, your play here leaves you to be a relatively safe bet for a lynch. If we don't get a mafia, we at least get a bad townie.

I know you disagree, but it doesn't matter. Posting silly or confusing, and generally unhelpful things does in fact make you a bad townie. If I'm wrong on this, feel free to correct me. If anyone else disagrees, please say so.

I'm not saying we must therefore lynch you now, because I still suspect you're just being yourself and that doesn't make you mafia or town. But the style isn't very good for town. For now, I will keep my vote on you because I think you're being less helpful. Later on, if I see other more definitively bad play, I will probably change my vote.

I'm probably over-analyzing things, but I still say it's bad play.

A long, elaborate post, yet you refuse to take a clear position (what's it going to be, lynch Ichigo or not? Indecisiveness is also counterproductive for the town...).

Vote : pizzaguy

And for the record: Ichigo doesn't strike me as suspicious right now.

[White_eyes:D]

I never got a PM, so I am going to assume that I am town or not?? maybe you guys should bandwagon me just in case......I well forgive you....(this time)

[KukriKhan]

Originally Posted by KukriKhan
If the mafia guys didn't start out knowing each other, that may explain the lack of a kill - maybe they did investigations instead, trying to find their twin (or the detective, to get rid of him).

What makes you think that the mafia can do investigations KukriKhan-sama...?

Suspicious, but you know I am not one to go and vote for someone for that reason.

I've been in a couple of games where the mafia characters also had investigative abilities, to find the doctor and detective roles. But I guess that's not universal.

Dang it, everyone is acting more or less according to their usual behavior so far, making it tough to pick out a lynchee. Ant speculation on our lurkers, anyone?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

White Eyes:

Are you aware that your post "I didn't get a PM" is considered total WIFOM? There are those who would vote for you 1st round simply because of it.

I will continue to abstain because I don't know you yet; it could simply be that you haven't gotten into the SOP groove here. But beware, that kind of post is considered suspicious.


As to other potential candidates:

Pizza is having a bit of a Sasaki effect. It's a time-consuming style of play to post so much on so many aspects of a game and it grinds on people. It neither proves, nor disproves, mafia status. It should be noted, however, that the voluminous parsiflage style HAS been used by Sasaki to conceal mafia status (but no more frequently than one would expect from random selection) and does provoke discussion and defense -- which usually enhance the chances of a townie win.

Ichigo, your earlier posts left me with ZERO suspicion. Your last exchange with Pizza, however, was a bullet point by bullet point defensive response. I don't recall seeing you do that before....

Reenk, for those of you actively voting, is not yet a good choice for a lynch. His style of posting so far is PERFECTLY consistent with his usual mode of play. You simply haven't experienced the joy of the Reenkster in action.

[Peasant Phill]

OOC: Are you Phill, the Janitor?

edit: Hence the grin? *facepalm*

Sure, I'm inventing my own themesong right now. It goes something like:
Tutuuu tututututut tutu, and so on

Is it a space weasel? Is it an high tech drone? No it's
THE JANITOR

[seireikhaan]

Well, if you insist...

I think 'khaan is mafia

Btw, why the pre-emptive defense, 'khaan?



A long, elaborate post, yet you refuse to take a clear position (what's it going to be, lynch Ichigo or not? Indecisiveness is also counterproductive for the town...).

Vote : pizzaguy

And for the record: Ichigo doesn't strike me as suspicious right now.

Don't think of it as a pre-emptive defense, Andres. Instead, think of it as... disarming attacks before they actually come.

Unvote: Reenk Roink

Vote: Andres

3rd on the bandwagon, mate. I honestly don't see why people are so intent on lynching the most active person right off the bat.

[Andres]

Don't think of it as a pre-emptive defense, Andres. Instead, think of it as... disarming attacks before they actually come.

Unvote: Reenk Roink

Vote: Andres

3rd on the bandwagon, mate. I honestly don't see why people are so intent on lynching the most active person right off the bat.

Don't put words in my mouth.

pizzaguy's activity was not the reason why I voted him... I voted him for the indecisiveness displayed in the post I quoted.

[Askthepizzaguy]

White Eyes:

Are you aware that your post "I didn't get a PM" is considered total WIFOM? There are those who would vote for you 1st round simply because of it.

I will continue to abstain because I don't know you yet; it could simply be that you haven't gotten into the SOP groove here. But beware, that kind of post is considered suspicious.


As to other potential candidates:

Pizza is having a bit of a Sasaki effect. It's a time-consuming style of play to post so much on so many aspects of a game and it grinds on people. It neither proves, nor disproves, mafia status. It should be noted, however, that the voluminous parsiflage style HAS been used by Sasaki to conceal mafia status (but no more frequently than one would expect from random selection) and does provoke discussion and defense -- which usually enhance the chances of a townie win.

Ichigo, your earlier posts left me with ZERO suspicion. Your last exchange with Pizza, however, was a bullet point by bullet point defensive response. I don't recall seeing you do that before....

Reenk, for those of you actively voting, is not yet a good choice for a lynch. His style of posting so far is PERFECTLY consistent with his usual mode of play. You simply haven't experienced the joy of the Reenkster in action.

I would agree with that theory that those who are playing with a style that's consistent does not typically indicate guilty status, and those who are deviating from their usual style seems to indicate mafia. It's part of the reason I've been grilling Ichigo for what seems to be no apparent reason. I haven't played against Ichigo very often, but those who have made comments to me already that they think it's out of character for him.

I've never seen Reenk play because I am new, so I am going to have to go through the old games to see his playing style.

As for myself, I would refer people to Chaotix' FF mafia. As you can see, everything I am doing is exactly consistent with my established playing style. As you point out Seamus, I could still be mafia, because the tactic has been used before. In my opinion, such a tactic would be very risky for mafia to use, as it tends to get that person lynched or nearly lynched. It puts me out there in dangerous territory right away. It's totally unnecessary for someone who is mafia to do that, especially in the first round where it makes me stick out like a sore thumb, and it does end up giving town a better win percentage. It doesn't matter to me if I get lynched now or later, I'm still going to contribute to the discussion as it says in the rules that the dead can still post. I refuse to back down or be silenced for using what is the best strategy I can think of to assist town in investigating people and pushing potential mafioso into the spotlight.

I had absolutely nothing to go on, but my annoying questioning of Ichigo prompted him to behave out of character for him. I think there's something there. If you can ignore the abrasive nature of my personality and think clearly, you'll realize that there is a method to what I am doing, and it's useful; it makes the cockroaches scurry from the light.

Andres-

The point of what I was arguing is clear, or it was to me at least. I don't know for certain Ichigo is guilty or not, but he's behaving strangely. I am keeping my vote on him because right now, his behavior is scummy to me. You want decisive, I'm taking decisive action by following every lead, and every time Ichigo starts typing again, he provides me with better and better leads, and more reasons to believe he's not himself. I refuse to take the passive road of waiting for mafia to make a mistake.

With several votes on me already, all of which I gained after I began questioning, I'm at the head of the line, and I'm still questioning. What does that tell you, Andres?

[Andres]

With several votes on me already, all of which I gained after I began questioning, I'm at the head of the line, and I'm still questioning. What does that tell you, Andres?

That you are cautious not to get caught "behaving out of character" like (as you claim) Ichigo?

About Ichigo, his "sillyness" generated discussion, didn't it? Weren't you in favour of discussion?

[Askthepizzaguy]

That you are cautious not to get caught "behaving out of character" like (as you claim) Ichigo?

About Ichigo, his "sillyness" generated discussion, didn't it? Weren't you in favour of discussion?

I'd hardly describe my playing style as cautious, Andres. That reasoning doesn't work at all.

Absolutely I want discussion generated, but not for the sake of filling up the thread with pointless banter. The point is to find out of character behavior. I'm neither being cautious NOR out of character. Ichigo on the other hand, is. Your reasoning doesn't hold up either. What's your story, Andres?

[Andres]

I'd hardly describe my playing style as cautious, Andres. That reasoning doesn't work at all.

I said that you are being cautious not get caught "behaving out of character", I did not say that your playing style an sich is cautious.

Don't twist my words.

As for myself, I would refer people to Chaotix' FF mafia. As you can see, everything I am doing is exactly consistent with my established playing style.

Why trying so hard to stay consistent with your previous playing style?

Absolutely I want discussion generated, but not for the sake of filling up the thread with pointless banter.

The discussion generated by Ichigo's behaviour was pointless banter?

The point is to find out of character behavior.

Ichigo is not acting "out of character". He usually posts some nonsense and when it provokes more serious response then the sillyness merits, he reacts.

Look at his silly remarks as small fishes that he throws in the water. You took the bait.

I'm neither being cautious NOR out of character. Ichigo on the other hand, is. Your reasoning doesn't hold up either. What's your story, Andres?

You are cautious to stay in character, which is interesting.

There was nothing wrong with my reasoning. The question is: did you misinterprete/twist my words on purpose or not?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Why trying so hard to stay consistent with your previous playing style?

I'd actually have to try hard to be anything else. This kind of interrogative method is what I use even when I'm not even playing mafia games. I actually have to stop myself from really ranting.

The discussion generated by Ichigo's behaviour was pointless banter?

I generated the discussion. Ichigo's arguments were weak, and the fact that he was even bothering to argue against what I would declare to be a baseless, weak attack proves to me it made him nervous. That's not in his character.

Ichigo is not acting "out of character". He usually posts some nonsense and when it provokes more serious response then the sillyness merits, he reacts.

Interesting that you're now defending Ichigo, rather than Ichigo defending himself.

Look at his silly remarks as small fishes that he throws in the water. You took the bait.

That's ridiculous. I was the one who baited him into debating me over absolutely nothing. Without my actions, he would have remained less talkative.

You seem to be twisting my actions to suit your purposes.

There was nothing wrong with my reasoning. The question is: did you misinterprete/twist my words on purpose or not?

Yes. It's true that I am being careful to maintain my innocence, but I'm not doing it in a very cautious way. That's why I can take your word and turn it back on you and say that it's a bad mischaracterization. It doesn't apply to the playing style, and it doesn't even really apply to the specific.

I see that you're being awfully vociferous in Ichigo's defense. Kudos. My question is why.

If my argument was that off base, why are you taking the time to defend him?

[Andres]

Yes. It's true that I am being careful to maintain my innocence, but I'm not doing it in a very cautious way. That's why I can take your word and turn it back on you and say that it's a bad mischaracterization. It doesn't apply to the playing style, and it doesn't even really apply to the specific.

I think I'm spot on when I say that you are concerned about reassuring everybody who is reading your posts that you are acting the exact same way as always.

I find that interesting.

I see that you're being awfully vociferous in Ichigo's defense. Kudos. My question is why.

To point out that your "case" against Ichigo is weak + the post I quoted earlier in which you refused to take a clear position.

It's not about Ichigo, it's about you.

If my argument was that off base, why are you taking the time to defend him?

Why did you take the time to accuse Ichigo?

His silly vote was just that : a silly vote.

Why are you so eager on lynching him because of that?

[ULC]

Ouch, lots of useless discussion, that hasn't seemed to reveal anything beyond the fact we have nothing to go on except a single silly vote which is entirely IC for Ichigo, and which others have done before in previous mafia games, with no one suddenly breathing down their back? If Ichigo's vote counted as an abstain essentially, to me that helps, because he is not just randomly throwing votes around and getting someone lynched by accident. Of course, an abstain may cause the same result, but we at least know Ichigo is active.

Can someone do a tally? I don't want to set up a tie by accident, and with all the discussion, It's making it hard to find out who has voted for who...

[Askthepizzaguy]

Activity:

Ichigo- posted
makaikhaan- posted, voted
Sigurd- posted, voted
Lord Winter-
shlin28- posted, voted
Askthepizzaguy- posted, voted
Aries777777- voted
pevergreen- posted, voted
beefy187-
Rythmic-
Andres- posted, voted
YLC-
Seamus- posted, abstained
Reenk Roink- posted
Chaotix27- posted, voted
glyphz-
twilightblade-
Peasant Phill- posted, voted
Mithrandir-
White Eyes- posted, no vote
Yoyoma- voted
Alexander The Pretty Good
KukriKhan- posted

Where is everyone?

I think I'm spot on when I say that you are concerned about reassuring everybody who is reading your posts that you are acting the exact same way as always.

I find that interesting.

Part of what I try to do when I argue is cover my bases. I automatically assume anyone reading my posts are reading them with a critical eye. I give reasons why what I'm doing is consistent, to try to gain control of the argument and make it about my target, rather than myself. But I am perfectly comfortable talking about myself as well, which is another reason why I put that out there.

It challenges people to challenge me, and in doing so, also generates discussion.

To point out that your "case" against Ichigo is weak + the post I quoted earlier in which you refused to take a clear position.

It's not about Ichigo, it's about you.

Actually, it's about both me and Ichigo, and now you because you're in the discussion too. You want to focus on Ichigo, but I can talk about myself, you, and Ichigo at the same time.

You mischaracterize me as not having a clear position, but the fact is I can't prove Ichigo is guilty. All I can prove is that he's acting out of character. I did not hesitate to vote him and I refused to change my vote even when pressured.

Now you're jumping to his defense, which I find interesting.

Why did you take the time to accuse Ichigo?

His silly vote was just that : a silly vote.

Why are you so eager on lynching him because of that?

I took the time to accuse Ichigo because he made what I thought was a bad post, followed by a miserable defense of that post.

I maintain that silly votes are grounds for inquiry. I am not "eager on lynching him", I voted for him and asked him questions. He's hardly even in the running for the lynch, solely based on my vote. The purpose of voting for him was to get him talking, which it did. And it got him making missteps as well.

The argument revealed that Ichigo was out of character for Ichigo, in the opinion of myself and others. I accomplished my objective, which was to try to make him misstep. You seem to misconstrue the nature of what I'm doing.

I'm trying to prove someone's guilt, but unless they make a serious blunder, that's impossible at this stage of the game. What is possible is to make someone nervous and misstep. Now that I've done that, I am free to direct my argument and my vote elsewhere.

Why do you take the time to question me for questioning someone else? I hope it's for the same reasons I am questioning people. And if so, you're questioning a behavior you yourself are engaging in.

EDIT:

Can someone do a tally? I don't want to set up a tie by accident, and with all the discussion, It's making it hard to find out who has voted for who...

I will fill in the tally above in just a moment. Was trying to figure out who was lurking.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Tally and activity

Ichigo- posted
makaikhaan- posted, voted Andres
Sigurd- posted, voted Peasant Phill
Lord Winter- no activity
shlin28- posted, voted pevergreen
Askthepizzaguy- posted, voted Ichigo
Aries777777- voted Reenk Roink
pevergreen- posted, voted pizzaguy
beefy187- no activity
Rythmic- no activity
Andres- posted, voted pizzaguy
YLC- posted
Seamus- posted, abstained
Reenk Roink- posted
Chaotix27- posted, voted makaikhaan
glyphz- no activity
twilightblade- no activity
Peasant Phill- posted, abstained
Mithrandir- no activity
White Eyes- posted, no vote
Yoyoma- voted pizzaguy
Alexander The Pretty Good- posted, abstained
KukriKhan- posted

Pizzaguy- 3
Abstain- 3
makaikhaan- 1
Andres- 1
Peasant Phill- 1
Ichigo- 1
Reenk Roink- 1
pevergreen- 1

[Andres]

Why do you take the time to question me for questioning someone else? I hope it's for the same reasons I am questioning people. And if so, you're questioning a behavior you yourself are engaging in.

My head hurts...

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Vote: Abstain
I'm not sure right now and would rather try to second and third-guess the agent(s)' strikes.

[ULC]

Vote: Sigurd

For voting for someone who abstained and who will be away for a bit, and thus can't defend himself properly, forcing other to do so and thus making them and PP look suspicious.

[Yoyoma1910]

Dear Diary,


Thing are going alright on the Prometheus. Seems we picked up a load of stuff and are heading home. Personally I think the "ore" smell like old socks. Which reminds me, it's laundry month... ah, maybe next month.


Played my guitar earlier. My roommate Dave "Ask the Pizza Guy" Rimmer then accused me of conspiring to blow up the ship with my wretched awesome noise. He's the one making all the noise. Can't think with all that jabbering.


Ate some lamb vindaloo, extra curry.


So far managed to hide my cat. Worried Rimmer might find it and come up with new "catatonic bomb conspiracy," or something.


Looking forward to buying some land on Fiji.


Out.

[Askthepizzaguy]

We have roughly 10 hours remaining, but the amount of non-voters and non-participants suggests to me that the mafioso are easily lurking.

I'm going to do a quick check of activity, and see who has logged in but ignored the thread.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vote, activity, and lurker report:

Ichigo- posted, non-vote
makaikhaan- posted, voted Andres
Sigurd- posted, voted Peasant Phill
Lord Winter- last activity: yesterday 22:02 (checks out)
shlin28- posted, voted pevergreen
Askthepizzaguy- posted, voted Rythmic
Aries777777- voted Reenk Roink
pevergreen- posted, voted pizzaguy
beefy187- last activity: Today at 2:01 (lurking?)
Rythmic- last activity: today at 11:10 (lurking)
Andres- posted, voted pizzaguy
YLC- posted, voted sigurd
Seamus- posted, abstained
Reenk Roink- posted.
Chaotix27- posted, voted makaikhaan
glyphz- last activity: Today 9:29 (lurking)
twilightblade- activity hidden, no thread activity
Peasant Phill- posted, abstained
Mithrandir- activity hidden, no thread activity
White Eyes- posted, no vote
Yoyoma- voted pizzaguy
Alexander The Pretty Good- abstained
KukriKhan- posted

Pizzaguy- 3
Abstain- 3
makaikhaan- 1
Andres- 1
Peasant Phill- 1
Reenk Roink- 1
pevergreen- 1
Sigurd- 1
Rythmic- 1

_________________

EDIT:
Unvote: Ichigo, vote Rythmic

Was here today, recently, and didn't bother posting or voting. I'd call that intentional lurking. FOS: Glyphz, same reason.


edit: edit:

The tally is accurate, I just double checked.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Logging off now, and I won't be back during this voting phase, as I'll be over my girlfriend's house.

Good luck, town.

[Csargo]

Ichigo, your earlier posts left me with ZERO suspicion. Your last exchange with Pizza, however, was a bullet point by bullet point defensive response. I don't recall seeing you do that before....

I've done it before.

[Thermal]

good enough for me, seeing as pikachu is evil though i'll let reenk off as he may be taking rehab sessions at least

unvote: reenk roink
vote: rythmic

[shlin28]

...

How can you guys make 3 pages of posts talking about basically nothing???

My vote stands.

[ULC]

...

How can you guys make 3 pages of posts talking about basically nothing???

My vote stands.

I blame that pizza guy...

[seireikhaan]

...

How can you guys make 3 pages of posts talking about basically nothing???

My vote stands.

So basically you just thought you'd come tell us that without offering any reason as to why its nothing? Dare I say that post amounted to... nothing?

Andres- I was not intending to imply that you voted for Pizzaguy just because he's active. Nor was I intending to put words in your mouth. However, I must ponder as to why the town does not question the wisdom in lynching the most active person on day one just because that person, is, essentially, being an inquisitor. We've done that many a time to Sasaki, and it almost never yielded a positive result. Also, I will point out that Ichigo's point by point defense was rather odd in its own right. That was most certainly not the aloof strawberry we know and love.

[Csargo]

Also, I will point out that Ichigo's point by point defense was rather odd in its own right. That was most certainly not the aloof strawberry we know and love.

Yeah, well... This isn't normal either:

As to why there were no kills; frankly, I'm quite surprised nobody has accused me of being mafioso right away, given my, ahem, track record. I'd say the mafia probably has one kill, and whomever was supposed to submit it pulled a "khaan", so to speak. I'm gonna guess that there's likely a serial killer who would give us a 2nd kill. However, maybe he has some other ability and used it night one?