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Thread: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

    DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) - Syria's state-run television and witnesses say U.S. military helicopters have attacked an area along the country's border with Iraq, causing casualties. The report quoted unnamed Syrian officials and said the area is near the Syrian border town of Abu Kamal. It gave no other details on Sunday's attack.
    Local residents told The Associated Press by telephone that two helicopters carrying U.S. soldiers raided the village of Hwijeh, 10 miles inside Syria's border, killing seven people and wounding five.
    The U.S. military in Baghdad had no immediate comment.
    That's a big deal. Abu Kamal is a relatively big city and has plenty of outlying towns. I wonder how this turn out.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 10-26-2008 at 20:09.
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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    The word sovereignty seems to be missing from American dictionaries.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    prob. american choppers but operated by israelis dressed as americans.


    he. now america is poking thier nose into there? they should have learned after what happened in 1983.....
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    The border has been known to be an exit point for insurgents entering and leaving Iraq.
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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishFish View Post
    The border has been known to be an exit point for insurgents entering and leaving Iraq.
    That doesnt give us a free ticket to just go in there and skirt sovrigenty
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    That doesnt give us a free ticket to just go in there and skirt sovrigenty
    agreed.
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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    We have long ago demolished the idea that nations harboring terrorists and not dealing with them are safe from isolated strikes. We did not start an invasion, rather a single incursion. Things would be hard pressed to get much worse between the two nations anyway, so we should really see what there is to lose. I don't believe that we should pull a Russia and launch an invasion into Syria, but single strikes are reasonable.

    If we can do it to an ally like Pakistan, we will absolutely do it to an enemy that finances the deaths of Iraqis and U.S. Troops.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 10-26-2008 at 20:59.
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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff View Post
    We have long ago demolished the idea that nations harboring terrorists and not dealing with them are safe from isolated strikes. We did not start an invasion, rather a single incursion. Things would be hard pressed to get much worse between the two nations anyway, so we should really see what there is to lose. I don't believe that we should pull a Russia and launch an invasion into Syria, but single strikes are reasonable.
    Single strikes get nothing done and produce more propaganda. It is a lose lose. We can either do this on a larger scale or respect Syria. These "probing" efforts are useless
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Single strikes get nothing done and produce more propaganda. It is a lose lose. We can either do this on a larger scale or respect Syria. These "probing" efforts are useless
    It is essentially saying - "unless you deal with this, you will have no national security". They can't attack us, so maybe they will deal with the problem. We arn't asking them to give up anything, just stop people from safely training to kill Americans and Iraqis. Not an unreasonable request.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 10-26-2008 at 21:03.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
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    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Single strikes get nothing done and produce more propaganda. It is a lose lose. We can either do this on a larger scale or respect Syria. These "probing" efforts are useless
    well, the single strike can get something done if we went in to get a wanted terrorist leader or s/t. but from what what they give us, we cant really determine if it was useful or not.
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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff View Post
    It is essentially saying - "unless you deal with this, you will have no national security". They can't attack us, so maybe they will deal with the problem. We arn't asking them to give up anything, just stop people from safely training to kill Americans and Iraqis. Not an unreasonable request.
    I Think the Syrian leadership will tolerate a few casualties and bombed out buildings rather than bend to our wishes. Especially when its happening periodically. All this does is make the Syrian populace more hardened to America.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    I Think the Syrian leadership will tolerate a few casualties and bombed out buildings rather than bend to our wishes. Especially when its happening periodically. All this does is make the Syrian populace more hardened to America.
    Ha! More hardened to us? Right.

    They should know that if terrorists are training in their towns, their towns are not safe. Maybe they will think twice about letting them train there, maybe not. It worked in Libya - we hammered the crap out of them intermittently and they eventually realized that terrorist training sites arn't the direction their economy needs to go.

    Let them cut off as many noses as they deem necessary in order to spite their national face. We are asking them not to allow people to train to kill innocent people in their country.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 10-26-2008 at 21:16.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
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    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Single strikes get nothing done and produce more propaganda. It is a lose lose. We can either do this on a larger scale or respect Syria. These "probing" efforts are useless
    You cannot say that without knowing what the goal was. A single, well informed strike in Pakistan could net Bin Laden.

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff View Post
    Ha! More hardened to us? Right.

    They should know that if terrorists are training in their towns, their towns are not safe. Maybe they will think twice about letting them train there, maybe not. It worked in Libya - we hammered the crap out of them intermittently and they eventually realized that terrorist training sites arn't the direction their economy needs to go.

    Let them cut off as many noses as they deem necessary in order to spite their national face. We are asking them not to allow people to train to kill innocent people in their country.
    But we arent "hammering the crap out of them" Besides comparing Syria and Libya's situations are completely different. This just gives more propaganda
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    You cannot say that without knowing what the goal was. A single, well informed strike in Pakistan could net Bin Laden.
    And I'll marry into a chain of liquor stores. Maybe if there was some big time target you could talk me into it but doing for the simple fact of "making them think about it" is laughable.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    But we arent "hammering the crap out of them" Besides comparing Syria and Libya's situations are completely different. This just gives more propaganda
    Why are they so completely different? Nothing is identical, but one Islamic nation producing terrorists with the consent of government is very similar to another doing the same thing. Reasons may be different, response may be different, but the situations are comparable.

    Iraq is totally different from Vietnam, but you hear about the situations being compared all the time.

    Syria is essentially at war with the U.S., The Coalition, Israel, Iraq and Lebanon though the (transparently) clandestine support of armed brigands that ravage our respective countrysides.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 10-26-2008 at 21:28.
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    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff View Post
    Why are they so completely different? Nothing is identical, but one Islamic nation producing terrorists with the consent of government is very similar to another doing the same thing. Reasons may be different, response may be different, but the situations are comparable.

    Iraq is totally different from Vietnam, but you hear about the situations being compared all the time.

    Syria is essentially at war with the U.S., The Coalition, Israel, Iraq and Lebanon though the (transparently) clandestine support of armed brigands that ravage our respective countrysides.
    Then why dont we just declare war on Syria?
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Then why dont we just declare war on Syria?
    because it would be too expensive and we'd like to avoid larger conflicts when all we want to do is stop the harboring of terrorists.

    We couldn't do it diplomatically or with sanctions, so what would the next step be? Abandon the principle or isolated strikes.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 10-26-2008 at 21:48.
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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff View Post
    because it would be too expensive and we'd like to avoid larger conflicts when all we want to do is stop the harboring of terrorists.

    We couldn't do it diplomatically or with sanctions, so what would the next step be? Abandon the principle or isolated strikes.
    I dont think the isolated strikes will do that though.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    It worked in Libya - we hammered the crap out of them intermittently and they eventually realized that terrorist training sites arn't the direction their economy needs to go.
    Errrrr...wasn't that years of negotiations with European nations topped of with a big financial package and a nice generous arms deal that worked in Libya .

    Iraq is totally different from Vietnam, but you hear about the situations being compared all the time.
    It isn't different , its a stupid expensive war , initially justified by lies being fought for the wrong reasons with the wrong policies that only an idiot would get into and it cannot be brought to a succesful conclusion , top that off with it making American government look really silly around the world and they are exactly alike .

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    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff View Post
    Iraq is totally different from Vietnam, but you hear about the situations being compared all the time.
    I agree with you...they are totally different situations...

    when it came to Vietnam Dubya had an exit strategy!!!
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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman View Post
    Errrrr...wasn't that years of negotiations with European nations topped of with a big financial package and a nice generous arms deal that worked in Libya .
    Yes - it was the whole kit and caboodle. Bombings, diplomacy and, eventually the odd gratuity all led to a better resolution to the situation. The package was a recent thing and things had settled considerably before it. I'm not averse to bombing them now, getting them to understand how absurd their position has been and then giving them an arms deal in 10 years in exchange for weapons agents to clean them out of any illegal arms programs they may be entertaining.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman View Post
    It isn't different , its a stupid expensive war , initially justified by lies being fought for the wrong reasons with the wrong policies that only an idiot would get into and it cannot be brought to a succesful conclusion , top that off with it making American government look really silly around the world and they are exactly alike .
    So we can't compare Libya and Syria, but we can compare Vietnam and Iraq? Got it.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 10-26-2008 at 22:26.
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    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Did Dubya ever enter Vietnam in the first place???
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    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal Murat View Post
    Did Dubya ever enter Vietnam in the first place???
    the comedian knows he has failed when he has to explain the joke....
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    Texan Member BigTex's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Single strikes get nothing done and produce more propaganda. It is a lose lose. We can either do this on a larger scale or respect Syria. These "probing" efforts are useless
    No comment from the pentagon yet about it. So I'll hold off even calling this a strike into syria till then. Could very well be a pilot error in his location.

    As for the usefulness of isolated strikes, as long as there is an overarching plan single strikes are effective. Without a strategy though, you would be right, singular strikes are worthless.

    Petraeus is no longer in charge of iraq so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Update

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) - U.S. military helicopters attacked territory inside Syria close to its border with Iraq Sunday, killing eight people in a strike the Syrian government condemned as "serious aggression." A U.S. military official said the raid by special forces targeted the foreign fighter network that travels through Syria into Iraq in an area where the Americans have been unable to shut it down because it was out of the military's reach.
    "We are taking matters into our own hands," the official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because of the political sensitivity of cross-border raids.
    The attack came just days after the commander of U.S. forces in western Iraq said American troops were redoubling efforts to secure the Syrian border, which he called an "uncontrolled" gateway for fighters entering Iraq.
    A Syrian government statement carried by the official Syrian Arab News Agency said the helicopters attacked the Sukkariyeh Farm near the town of Abu Kamal, five miles inside the Syrian border. Four helicopters attacked a civilian building under construction shortly before sundown and fired on workers inside, the statement said.
    The area is near the Iraqi border city of Qaim, which had been a major crossing point for fighters, weapons and money coming into Iraq to fuel the Sunni insurgency.
    Syria's Foreign Ministry said it summoned the charges d'affaires of the United States and Iraq to protest against the strike.
    The foreign fighters network sends militants from North Africa and elsewhere in the Middle East to Syria, where elements of the Syrian military are in league with al-Qaida and loyalists of Saddam Hussein's Baath party.
    The U.S. military official said that while American forces have had considerable success, with Iraqi help, in shutting down the "rat lines" in Iraq, and with foreign government help in North Africa, the Syrian node has been out of reach.
    "The one piece of the puzzle we have not been showing success on is the nexus in Syria," the official said.
    The White House in August approved similar special forces raids from Afghanistan across the border of Pakistan to target al-Qaida and Taliban operatives. At least one has been carried out.
    The flow of foreign fighters into Iraq has been cut to an estimated 20 a month, a senior U.S. military intelligence official told the Associated Press in July. That's a 50 percent decline from six months ago, and just a fifth of the estimated 100 foreign fighters who were infiltrating Iraq a year ago, according to the official, speaking on condition of anonymity in order to discuss intelligence reports.
    Ninety percent of the foreign fighters enter through Syria, according to U.S. intelligence. Foreigners are some of the most deadly fighters in Iraq, trained in bomb-making and with small-arms expertise and more likely to be willing suicide bombers than Iraqis.
    Foreign fighters toting cash have been al-Qaida in Iraq's chief source of income. They contributed more than 70 percent of operating budgets in one sector in Iraq, according to documents captured in September 2007 on the Syrian border. Most of the fighters were conveyed through professional smuggling networks, according to the report.
    On Thursday, U.S. Maj. Gen. John Kelly said Iraq's western borders with Saudi Arabia and Jordan were fairly tight as a result of good policing by security forces in those countries but that Syria was a "different story."
    "The Syrian side is, I guess, uncontrolled by their side," Kelly said. "We still have a certain level of foreign fighter movement."
    He added that the U.S. was helping construct a sand berm and ditches along the border.
    "There hasn't been much, in the way of a physical barrier, along that border for years," Kelly said.
    The U.S. military in Baghdad did not immediately respond to a request for comment after Sunday's raid.
    Iraqi insurgents seized Qaim in April 2005, forcing U.S. Marines to recapture the town the following month in heavy fighting. The area became secure only after Sunni tribes in Anbar turned against al-Qaida in late 2006 and joined forces with the Americans.
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    the comedian knows he has failed when he has to explain the joke....
    I got it, and it was actually pretty funny.

  28. #28
    Formerly: SwedishFish Member KarlXII's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Apparently, from wht I gather, the raid was intended to sieze or kill an Al-Queda officer, 8 civilians were killed, including father and his 4 children and a married couple.

    Another U.S. Military source told Assuras that the leader of the foreign fighters, an al Qaeda officer, was the target of Sunday's cross-border raid. Although that source told CBS News the attack was successful, he stopped short of saying that the terrorist was among those killed in the raid
    HOW ABOUT 'DEM VIKINGS
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  29. #29
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Cross-border raids? Successful with a few killed children? Is the US going medieval on everybody now?

    But yeah, it was really bad when Russia raided a sovereign country.


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  30. #30
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Helicopters Attack Syrian Town

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Cross-border raids? Successful with a few killed children? Is the US going medieval on everybody now?

    But yeah, it was really bad when Russia raided a sovereign country.
    Russia invaded a sovereign country with a large force. We went in to this town with airborne troops for a surgical strike.

    It is terrible that children died, but how do you know the father didn't get his family killed in some sort of last stand with troops? I hope this doesn't turn into "the U.S. went in to Syria in order to kill children because they ran out of decent kids to kill in Iraq".

    The insurgency is notorious for killing themselves and their own families to make a point. I wouldn't be so quick to blame the U.S. troops.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
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