Redux: Battle & Tactics

[daigaku]

Hi Axalon,

.....just realized to recruit too few Berserkers ;-)) They will be even better, though less in numbers, than Bodyguards to slaughter whole armys - with armourIII-upgrade, of course.....

greetings, daigaku

[daigaku]

Hi to all REDUX players,

being a rather defensive player I just want to write down what worked for me, as well in Vanilla as in REDUX. Enjoy!

For all Factions:

- The very first is economy. Comes before big army, comes before variety of units. No money, no units - that simple.

- Don´t go for numbers. Go for quality. Every building increasing valour/morale/weapon-stats/armour-stats is vital. Costs a fortune to get them all - but is worth every Florin.

- Retrain, even the cheapest units. Every upgrade makes even woodsmen usable in battle!

- Blitzing works in Vanilla. It doesn´t really work in REDUX. Build your empire slow but steady. Sometimes it´s enough to conquer one or two provinces in a king´s life to keep up influence.

- Naval superiority. I had situations with an oncoming armada of about 150 Byz ships - be prepared to wipe out every ship of every possible opponent - and keep your trade going. Use islands giving no income for ship production!!

- Use outstanding units for outstanding jobs. In the discussion with Axalon I gave some examples ;-))

- Don´t use units just to fill up the stack. Always the best is only good enough, especially against highly trained heavy Infantry or Knights.

For my beloved Norse:

- Use all strong units, but have always at least 3 units of Norse Bodyguards/Berserkers and Norse Pathfinders in your army. With heavy odds, they will "make your day" ;-))

- You will love forests. An axe in the forest against spears and Cav does wonders - the thicker the forest the better.

- After the Pathfinders shot their arrows, they are great melee fighters for any flanking action with morale which never lets them run. Give them Armour and Weapon upgrades!

- Norse Spearmen have better defence (and morale) than most other. If needed use them in melee - they will stand their ground!

That, for the moment, sums it up. I wish everybody good battles ;-))

greetings, daigaku

[daigaku]

Hi @Axalon,

...just had this increadible experience to extinguish the Norse - with longbowmen...

I would not have dared to enter this province of theirs due to a 8star bodyguard general, all his men in level3 armour - but it was the most developed region, and so their new young king, a mere 2star, turned up there. I entered with mainly bows (a risk, for they had some cavalry, but how wisely does a 2star lead his men?) They let themselves be lured out of the forest they took as cover by a unit of my swift Irish Horsemen I put before their noses - right into the concentrated fire of 7 not-even-covered Longbow-units. Were shot to pieces because they decided not to send their cavalry to disturb my bowmen and so were simply too slow to cover the distance to my bows...none of them rooted, but their last man, the King, got shot down just before reaching my bows.
This, for me, is a lesson learned for using my beloved Norse. NEVER EVER get out of any stripe of wood you find against any decent projectiles!!! As you know from former descriptions, I always used this tactics, but here I saw how horrible such a "simple" mistake can be...

Happily fighting along greetings,
daigaku

[Axalon]

- The very first is economy. Comes before big army, comes before variety of units. No money, no units - that simple.

- Blitzing works in Vanilla. It doesn´t really work in REDUX. Build your empire slow but steady. Sometimes it´s enough to conquer one or two provinces in a king´s life to keep up influence.

- Use islands giving no income for ship production!!

That is good advice...

This, for me, is a lesson learned for using my beloved Norse. NEVER EVER get out of any stripe of wood you find against any decent projectiles!!! As you know from former descriptions, I always used this tactics, but here I saw how horrible such a "simple" mistake can be...

Umm… “I told you so”, now you seen it first hand what arrows and quarrels can do to Norse infantry. Obviously, the AI will never have the capacity to exploit certain circumstances as well as the player can, and usually will – as your tale here illustrates. I can’t help but to feel for the young, brave Viking-king how he died at the feet of cowardly English longbowmen - pierced by many arrows. Had it been me, I would have used that cavalry to destroy your archers, or die trying, as that would probably determine the outcome of the whole battle. The AI, of course, doesn’t have the capacity to see the importance of that detail. Anyway, now you have seen it for yourself – it is not a matter of faction but of troops, circumstances and tactics – that regardless of any faction. As it should be…

...just had this increadible experience to extinguish the Norse - with longbowmen...

Longbowmen is an extreme unit, so powerful that nothing can seriously match it in ranged combat, especially so under player management. And it has been debated many times if they should be allowed to be as powerful as they are in Redux. I have always defended them and their extreme traits - but as I always say – use them with care and caution as they are potentially game-wrecking, that’s how powerful they are (with their extreme range). It is hardly by accident that England is the only regular faction to be listed as “fairly easy”, due to their longbows. Or that it takes 3 years to develop 1 unit and cost plenty in the process. Use them responsibly, too many of these can ruin your game. Just saying… To me, they are much more interesting in the hands of the AI then any player.

- A

[daigaku]

Hi @Axalon,

Had it been me, I would have used that cavalry to destroy your archers

I would have done exactly the same, especially in the situation them not being covered by my SaxonHeavySpears (they stood quite some way back). And with this 8star Bodyguard General, that might have happened. But this way, with an unexperienced young King, I saw the chance to rid me of the single danger really remaining in the north. Bribing the remainders after the death of the king was only the cream on the cake ;-))

To me, they are much more interesting in the hands of the AI then any player

I will meet them playing the Russians. Being sure there as well it will take immense time and money to find out/build the necessary stuff, I will land on the British Islands rather late(first comes Scandinavia). So the AI has time to build up her structures and maybe surprise me somehow ;-))

Wish you a fine weekend,
daigaku

[daigaku]

Hi @all,

...ever had problems with those Cataphract Regiments?

Got them quite easily - forced them to face a unit of souped-up SaxonHeavySpears head on (4 rows deep, to spread enough not to get flanked by them), and got into the flank with a unit of Claymores with every bonus possible on Castle-level. So it was 100:100 men - and they got slaughtered! After fleeing (and getting chased with IrishHorsemen) before leaving the map there were left 12 men of them. I lost 17 Spears and 9 Claymores....THAT was a nice experience, especially because the Byz were friends of mine from the very beginning of the game and betrayed me. I had a General with only 2stars, theirs had 5. And my lad didn´t even get a star !! for this battle, loosing (with something like me 840 men, them 1280) only 157, the Byz having 758 casualties. My wife heard me shouting about that three rooms away ;-))

greetings, daigaku

[daigaku]

Hi @all,

okay, here we go, my first experience with the Russians in Redux, played with the new VI1004e on casual.

[Personal opinions of the] Units:

Slavic foresters: not as good as their Norse or English brethren, need definitely armour upgrade. Otherwise, the usual benefits from those "hidden" units.
Slavic Bowmen: an absolute must. Long range, good morale and decent mele fighters. Combine with Palace Guard or Irish Spears.
Russian Inf: forget them. Use SlavWarriors and SlavInf instead (okay, you need two units to get the same amount of men, but they are far better).
PalaceGuard: an absolute must. best heavy spears for the Russians. Keeping flanks secured, or break enemy lines, they do it.
SlavCav: Good alround Cav, absolute deadly when combined with
SlavHorseArchers: THE all-you-can-get unit of the russians, the only fault is lacking some morale (need buildings!). Bow and Sword, first demoralizing with volleys of arrows, then charging in with swords, combined with a CavSpear unit like SlavCav or, even better, IrishHorse. GREAT!! <<Aftermath>>: Sorry, made a mistake here. After checking with GnomeEditor realized they have the same morale level(5) as LithCav and SlavCav, means "good morale". Doesn´t show in info pics, though.
RussianLancers: 80men, devastating charge, fast moving, but again lacking morale. I prefer the Irish...
Boyars: Souped-up SlavHorseArchers, but only 20men. If you want a challenge being outnumbered, those are the guys to go with. They break Knights, spears, inf, what you want. Well armoured as well, so not too big a problem with archers (except those AP-archers, of course).
Russian Knights: The usual knight material. In my opinion, knights are overestimated(?), so I don´t go for them too much.


Regions and building up:

Very, VERY first, get Khazar. And get it quick, before the Byz steal it and get a foot into the steppes. If they do, sooner or later they destroy you. In my actual campaign I took it 719 by bribes.
Keep friends with the Lithuanians for at least 100 years. They´ll keep busy the Polish, the Hungarians and/or the HRE whilst you build up.
Don´t bother with sea trade in the beginning. Build farms, farms and farms again.
Second region, take Novgorod. Again I bribed and got some decent Norse with the deal, without destroying buildings (bribed garrison in keep and army the same turn).
Third region, take Suzdal, being central for Novgorod, Smolensk, Chernigov and Khazar. Build EVERYTHING POSSIBLE there, for means of "reachability".
Get a spy into Couronia (3 tradable goods, all Lithuanian units) for destabilisation and take it when securely in rebel hands (be sure to throw in MASSES, for the Liths will go for it in the same turn).
To keep up influence, the usual stuff: If necessary marry your sister, or use Finland as a retaken-from-rebels region (I don´t like to expand too much too early, prefer to build up and wait).
The moment Suzdal is built up, start spamming out fleets at least to the English Channel for trade. Take Ireland, for the Horse and Spears. Russians have no decent fast moving Cav or Spears.
Meanwhile, the war between Byz and Saracenes left one of them weak, so no trouble to get Berezan and Crimea. Spam fleet from there till Sicily at least.
Around 830, every region should be built up to Castle level, with every necessary Master/Armour and Morale building for troop production, and every farm/merchant giving an income.
Around 870, at least one of the mediterranean islands should be used for ship production, closing the circle to the baltics.
From here, the world is yours. Expand as you like.

That´s it, about; meanwhile it´s 1022, I have taken all the Lithuanian provinces (died without heir), Scandinavia from the Norse (hard piece of work, that!!), have taken Northumbria (iron!) for those Saxon units and as a foothold to take the British Island. Still haven´t entered the Deserts, and don´t want to, Khazar being a great stronghold against the Saracenes. Byz (allied, and keeping them alive, don´t want them coming back with thousands of Cataphracts) a mere shadow, the Big Boys are HRE (allied), Moors and Italians (and my Russians, of course). I´ll report more at end of campaign.

greetings, daigaku

p.s. @Cyprian2 : See, that´s a typical daigaku sum-up. You understand why I love your AAR?!?