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Thread: Redux: Battle & Tactics

  1. #31

    Default Re: Redux: Battle & Tactics

    Hi, what are your castle defending best practices?

    I want to put in castle small garrison (1-3) units to cause maximum damage to attacker in case of assault.
    What is your advice for such garrison?

    Theoretically and historically very good should be archer / crossbowman units.
    But my last 'quick' castle defence showed that my crossbowan didn't shoot even once before walls have been breaken,
    because ... ??? ... they can't shoot throught the walls?

    Is there a way to place shooting unit on the walls (I think - not, only in Rome:TW and above),
    or some good spot inside castle to effectively shoot on attackers outside walls?
    Last edited by tmodelsk; 03-18-2014 at 13:20.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Redux: Battle & Tactics

    Hello again Tomas/tmodelsk,

    Quote Originally Posted by tmodelsk View Post
    Hi, what are your castle defending best practices? ... ...
    Ummm... Personally I try to avoid getting to the point of siegee, as a defender – prefering to settle things on the field (if possible). If it can’t be avoided, I would favor a small garrison, that could sit tight for a long time, small units basically. Obviously it depends of the faction, but if we are talking about regular factions, then a few units of feudal champions is an excellent way to defend a castle at the gates. I would focus my attention to infantry-units, and small powerful ones (the grand champion, is an exception, due to being mounted). Foot knights is good and solid unit to defend a castle, as are any formation of royal knights. Other non-regular factions, I would go for the “Bodyguard”-units (Byzantine Cataphracts, Russian Nobles, Saracen/Moorish bodyguards etc. etc.).

    Quote Originally Posted by tmodelsk View Post
    Theoretically and historically very good should be archer / crossbowman units. But my last 'quick' castle defence showed that my crossbowan didn't shoot even once before walls have been breaken,
    because ... ??? ... they can't shoot throught the walls?
    ...Yeah, that’s the engine messing with you (and all of us). MTW can't handle that kind of stuff like MTW2 or some such. Sieges in MTW are essentially battles on (a few) concentrated points – leaving no or little room for manoeuvring – as is otherwise standard in any ordinary battle. It’s a shortcoming of the engine that we can do little about as all that stuff is hardcoded. So yeah, ranged units are hardly useful in sieges in a traditional sense – its infantry (and war-machines) that counts, always were, in all MTW-sieges.

    Quote Originally Posted by tmodelsk View Post
    Is there a way to place shooting unit on the walls (I think - not, only in Rome:TW and above),
    or some good spot inside castle to effectively shoot on attackers outside walls?
    Nope I don't think so... My advice, forget about your crossbowmen and replace them with some footknights or infantry, they will do a much better job all over...

    - A

  3. #33

    Thumbs up Aragonese Heroic Battle against Moors

    Hi. Long time passed, Redux 1005 is released and I'm now again fighting for the Glory of Christianity :-).

    In this post I want to share with all of you a story of fantastic heroic battle I've fought.

    Strategic background ... :

    I'm playing Redux 1005 VI, Aragonese, with some my own minor modifications (I'm software developer) but units stats are unchanched.

    So, situation from 740 year ...
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    there is peace, all my defence against Moors are concentrated in Andalusia, my defence system assumes that Castilie will remain in Spain hands.
    If Castillie falls to Moors - Moors will have access to all my Iberia provinces and I can't afford to have full stack army in each province.
    If Castilie falls - this is strategic game over.

    In year 744 from my spies I've received information that Spanish King has been killed in battle - defending Castilie against Moors !.
    Somehow - thanks to bridge defence - Spanish won this battle, the Spanish prince became King.
    For me it's obvious that sooner or later, maybe int next 1 - 2 - 3 year, Moors will attack Castillie again and won.
    I see their full stack coming from Africa ...

    So, in ... 744 I've decided to attack Cordoba - to possibly route or kill one of Moors armies - to help Spain.
    Maybe it will be suicide attack, but I have nothing to loose.

    I rapidly gathered all available forces and attacked Cordoba.
    The forces are as shown :
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    as you see :
    Aragonese: 825
    Moors: 2000 of superb units !!

    I've got two advantages over enemy :
    - all my forces have armor upgrade, and most of my sword / halberd infantry has weapon upgrade.
    - archers - 2 units of 100 men, basic ones but Moors have only some small 40 man archer unit.

    And in general - my army is well balanced - archers, swords, spears / halbediers, heavy cavalry.

    And here starts on of the most strange & exiting battle I've fought in in all Total War battles :-). (Shogun, Medieval, Rome)

    Remember - I'm the attacker, Moors are defending ! Diff level is Redux Veteran (hardest).



    As you can see - Moors general feels so self-confident that he attacks !!!

    Video time:
    • 2:00 min - Moors are splitting forces, strong cavalry-camel wing splits from main forces to attack me from my left flank or behind !
    • 2:45 - Moors want to crash me from opposing directions, leaving no chance to escape ... . I'm starting to fix my battle lines ...
    • 3:15 - first serious mistake by Moors. They came to close with camels wing to my battle lines ... my archers starts shooting ...
    • 3:40 - My left wing is ready to encounter flanking camels, I'm setting up the right wing to met main Moorish forces ...
    • 3:50 - My brilliant decision - to shorten / centralize my positions.
      Benefits : my archers could fire on both sides - very effective. I have short communication routes between two wings, my wings can quickly help each other.
    • 4:10 Almost final defense setup. While having a lot less of men, I want to have big advantage in numbers and quality on left wing to quickly destroy / route Moors camels flankers. I hope my right wing will hold on for a while. It's risky but could lead to victory ... .
      My battle lines are 'Reversed V' formation. I've never seen it before !! :-)
    • 4:20 - Full Moorish assault from both wings. And their biggest mistake in this battle ! If they tided a lot of my forces on my left wing and are in worse position, they should wait with the attack on my left wing !! Time is playing for them !! But they attack on both wings, allowing me to quickly destroy their camels on left wing !!
    • 4:45 - Moorish camels are destroyed or routed. My left wing is free and rapidly runs to right wing - because Moors have big advantage on my right wing ! On right - Moorish starts to outflank me, but my left forces - cavalry are one the way. Light billmen will be routed by Moorish boddyguards. RIght wing cav is doing brilliant maneveour - is escaping from spear infatry, leading it far far from battle and charging at enemy lines from behind !!
    • 5:00 - I'm starting to outflank enemy on top of reversed V - it's done by infantry from left wing. My king clashes with Moorish Bodyguards !!
    • 5:15 - It looks likeMoors outflanking manaveur on right bottom wing is stopped. If my central battle lines - infantry - will hold little longer I will be able to use my 'liberated' units as advantage !
    • 5:18 - My brave King with his companions KILLED enemy commander !!
    • 5:30 - YES YES YES - FULL Royal Knights CHARGE from rear, which will initiate routing sequence !!! On top of reversed V - infantry flanking is done !!
    • 5:45 Y E S !! Y E S !! Enemy is running away !!! But that is only half of success - Moors have huge reinforcements.
    • 6:00 Here starts second phase of battle - killing routers and figthing with reinforcements.
      I really hate those phase of battle and do not have good fighting patterns. It's one big mess !! But slowly I'm pushing enemy to map corner


    Screenshot from the begining of battle with units banners :
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    And final battle kills & looses :
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    As you can see, Aragonese killed about 1660 enemies while loosing only 480, own / enemy looses are less then 30%.
    But my army is dramatic conditions, only archers are operational.
    My King's companios payed high blood price, and so other units .... .

    Strategis situanion after battle :
    In the same year 744, parallel to my attack at Cordoba, Moors has again attacked Castilie and conquered it !!
    So their stack from Cordoba conqured Castilie, and their stack from Grenada moved to Cordoba and lost battle wit me.

    In the next year I immediatelly attacked Castilie - it was second near-suicide battle 800 vs 1200, no anything to loose.
    I've managed to conquer Castillie, but my King was forced to abandom Cordoba with his 400 army - he has no chance of fighting with next full stack.
    So after a few more battles - everything on the edge of survival - situation stabilized in 749.

    Casilie & Andaluzja in my hands, acting as main defence provinces, in Castilie is a river bridge defence position.

    !!! I'VE DONE THIS !!!

    Conslussion:
    • It's effective to move war to enemy territory, even if you ca't hold conquered enemy province for a longer time.
    • Enemy will loose province profit from his territorry, even for a year or two - it's worth, maybe some builiding destroyed.
    • You will not loose profit from your provinces.
    • You have a strategic initiative. You can try to capture some enemy army in province with no escape and after won battle destroy such army.
    • Battle tactic : in my opinion and experience it's good to keep your guys together each other. So rather focus - tide up your units that scatter all around.
      Rather use Roman-style tactic (your army inside square area) than very long single battle line. But of course it depends on particular situation.


    Axalon - Redux 1005 is very very good !
    I like economic slow-down. Units are perfectly balanced.
    In the near future I'll write my proposals to improve Redux even more.
    Or propose my own little mod to Redux which fits my feelings.

    !! REGARDS !!
    Last edited by tmodelsk; 11-20-2014 at 00:25.

    Member thankful for this post:

    Axalon 


  4. #34

    Default Re: Aragonese Heroic Battle against Moors

    I totally dig your post! Overall, I just love that you spare no expense in providing the reader with solid materials to show that everything you report in on this battle has actually happened, and indeed can happen, and how! Pics, observations, in-depth analysis, commentary and conclusions, and even video! That's the way its done! What more can one possibly ask for, folks? How fun and cool would not this place be if we had - even a small group of players - that did this and such stuff regularly here. I would certainly visit this place more often, that much is sure...

    Anyhow, a few thoughts and comments for you regarding the battle specifically... I think its an unexpected and quite remarkable victory in Redux, against heavy odds. The Muslims had more, and typically better formations/units to deploy, and they had basically just as good equipment as the Christians (you) had. The Muslims basically should have won, all they had to do to ensure a total victory was to secure a 1:1 (or better) kill ratio and it would have been so. Obviously, they where nowhere close to that, and that in turn ultimately spelled their doom and defeat. They simply did not do enough damage to win the day - the AI basically screwed up tactically all over and lost because of the fact. Numerical might, unit quality, experience and equipment will certainly influence an outcome - but evidently - not totally dictate it as this case explicitly shows. Actual tactics and leadership in the field - good and bad - will clearly also be a heavy factor in Reduxed battles.

    Tomas, thanks for posting this stuff, it was really interesting stuff and an excellent post. I'll post up (an unaltered) copy of it over at the TWC, so more people can read about this remarkable battle, as it deserves (assuming this is OK with you, otherwise let me know).

    - A


    Link to TWC-thread...

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post14231235
    Last edited by Axalon; 11-30-2014 at 18:37. Reason: update...

  5. #35

    Default Re: Redux: Battle & Tactics

    I have had the intention for quite some time to post up this little piece of information, and now I finally do... Ever since RXB1004 (was it?), you can use all the various Naptha-units in Redux to damage wall, towers and gates during battles. Obviously this goes for RXB1005 as well. In other words they (Naptha-units) can function as a limited siege-weapons/troops (at a pinch) should it ever become necessary. This circumstance was originally not planned by me, but became the result as I increased their damage. As a result they can virtually "blow through" even stonewalls if you have enough Naptha-units deployed. ...Just a little potential tactic for the desperate enough commander (obviously regular siege-weapons will still work to greater effect)...

    Try it folks, its pretty fun...

    - A
    Last edited by Axalon; 07-04-2015 at 07:55.

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