The vulgarity of uncivilised rich people

[edyzmedieval]

Disclaimer: This does not include those who behave like gentlemen\ladies.

It occured to me these days that more and more rich people choose to expose themselves on the street, in the club, at the restaurant by showing off more and more money. For me, they are just demonstrating the fact that they have absolutely no idea of manners and gentleman-like behaviour at all. This doesn't happen only in developing countries (my home country) but also in very developed countries where you would expect people to have a good taste when it comes to fashion and to behave properly.

Recently I have been walking in Geneva, and apart from the huge number of designer handbags that were on the street, there was this particular individual, with clear European face complexity, that had an interesting style. He wore a black shirt, white pants, skater sneakers but what was very interesting was his belt, that featured a big D&G sign the size of a CD!! This is not the only case. A short, stocky woman dressed in a big fur coat and a bag that had written Louis Vuitton all over it bumped in me in a magazine shop, nearly sending me to the ground, and she didn't even apologise afterwards.

As King Henry V pointed out in the "Things I don't understand, and probably never will" thread in the Frontroom, where is the intelligence, the manners and the impeccable behaviour of the noble class? People consider it arrogant, but it shows you are educated and you don't behave like a worker on a construction site, who will make even a prostitute blush with his colourful language and his "amazing" rudeness.

There is a distinction between snobbery and class. Unfortunately people who are trying to be elegant and mannered end up being utter snobs, as Rythmic pointed in the same thread.

So, when does a rich man (I'm only talking about the upper class here) crosses the line between snobbery and elegance? I am still asking myself why do we need to show off so much money, especially in these troubled economic times.

Thank you for reading my rant.

[Fragony]

Showing of is considered to be very vulgar here, wearing a belt like that will only make you a subject of hilarity. We are still closet calvinists.

[ICantSpellDawg]

The rich are separated from the poor only by their fortunes.

The middle class has always been at odds with the crass decadence of both general segments of society.You'll notice that the poorest and most ignorant mimic the habits of the wealthy, or vice versa - the most base in human nature.

I have contempt for the gaudy rich, if you couldn't tell. This has been a social irony for the longest time.

Hollywood is just a den of incredibly well paid carnies. Impoverished actors and minstrels who have hit a gold mine.

The middle class is, to me - any family who respects itself, irrespective of income. They might do very well one year and a few years later go a bit bust, but they don't look like clowns, engage in promiscuity or wear their wealth all around them. WE are characterized by our temperance. Our kids may be on an aristocratic/peasant path, but you can't control kids.

[Husar]

Well, it all depends, I know the guys with huge D&G belts and consider that pretty funny, especially since I believe many of them aren't nearly rich, they just spend their last cent on that kind of bling bling or get a cheap copy.

On the other hand, sometimes I see a piece of clothing that I would really like if it didn't have that really big designer logo on it, usually I will not buy it then but perhaps other people just don't mind so they end up looking like show offs unintentionally. Personally I think a small logo is also often read by other people but it usually doesn't bother me if it fits overall with the piece of clothing I want to buy.
Concerning hand bags, I think many women choose them by overall look and what they actually need/want in terms of size, I'm not sure how much a designer logo fits in there, for the ones i know, not much I'd say, except that they might consider the bag overpriced, which designer clothes often are, IMO.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Class has little to do with money, and everything to do with manners.

The nouveau riche (including trade and pretty much anyone ennobled after 1500) lack the one essence of nobility: noblesse oblige.

All nobles should be gentlemen. Not all gentlemen will be noble.

[rvg]

If you got it, flaunt it.

[Mikeus Caesar]

If you got it, flaunt it.

If you flaunt it, be prepared to get mugged for it

I personally consider it all rather tacky. If i had it my way, we'd have our 21st century liberties and freedoms, but also the style and temperance of the Edwardian era or Twenties. Or better yet, all the mongs in society would have their minds wiped and replaced with intellectuals who love steampunk.

EDIT: On second thoughts, lets just eliminate all the mongs. Problem solved.
EDIT EDIT: And yes, i am advocating genocide of all the sorts of people mentioned in this thread. We can confiscate their bling to raise cash for our war to capture more leibensraum. I'm sounding a lot like someone from history, can't imagine who...

[InsaneApache]

The vulgarity of uncivilised rich people

Ross and Brand. Say no more.

[LittleGrizzly]

That ross and brand thing blown well out of proportion, the girl even did a kiss and tell in the sun, this is just another for the mary whitehouse moral crusaders of the daily mail to complain about, though in fairness it makes a change from the racial hatred they usually spew....

Is there a difference between an upper class person wearing a top with armani written in big writing to me (middle or working class) wearing a t-shirt with a big nike tick on it or a fancy gold watch ?

we all like nice things, wearing a top like that is no different from buying the latest sporty looking car, whats wrong with enjoying hard earned (sometimes) money on making yourself look nice ?

I wouldn't treat something differently whether they were wearing armani, nike or some unknown cheap make, the only difference is if the person somehow thinks the clothes or car make them somehow better..

I couldn't explain my attraction to logo's and brand names, its not actually based on looking rich or having the most expensive or any such nonsense, as i seem to be attracted to nike and brands like that over the big expensive brands, i actually own an armani top (fake) i have never worn it and don't like it, give me one of my nice nike tops anyday over it

that being said aslong as i think the clothes look good i will wear them regardless of brand...(or ross )

[Koga No Goshi]

Most people rise to their level of income. So when you become more well-to-do, suddenly you live in a much better neighborhood and drive a much better automobile than you used to. There are excesses like constantly talking about how much money you make, but I think we're talking about a tiny... possibly miniscule minority, when we start describing a person of means who doesn't make a social statement about his or her income in a very visible way. It's not like I have to "guess" if someone is wealthy or not when they tell me they live in Pacific Palisades or drive up in a very expensive luxury car.

[Spino]

Edyzmedieval, these attitudes are a by-product of the dominant culture(s) that these people were raised in. The act displaying one's wealth & status via conspicuous dress, appearance or reckless consumerism is by no means limited to the upper classes. In most western democracies the overwhelming majority of the the rich come from the middle class and thus reflect the same values and attitudes. So for every lower & middle class yokel who flagrantly flaunts his wealth or status you have a nouveau riche ninny who does the same.

[rory_20_uk]

Class has little to do with money, and everything to do with manners.

The nouveau riche (including trade and pretty much anyone ennobled after 1500) lack the one essence of nobility: noblesse oblige.

All nobles should be gentlemen. Not all gentlemen will be noble.

Well said.

Vulgar means common, as those with a grounding in Latin know. Of course they act in a vulgar way, as they are in the truest sense of the word

[Andres]

a) don't be fooled by expensive clothes/an expensive car. It does not mean that the owner is rich. During my career I've seen quite a few people 'looking rich', but who were in fact constantly balancing on the edge of bankruptcy;
b) No matter how rich you are, you can't buy class, style nor brains.

[Megas Methuselah]

where is the intelligence, the manners and the impeccable behaviour of the noble class?

Noble class...? What is this, the year 1100? Technically, I'm a noble(), but I hate a lot of forms of gentlemanly conduct or whatever you call it. Moreover, I'm not rich(lower-middle class), I have no table/dinner manners(well, I eat with my mouth closed, but that's it), I'm completely vulgar and crude, and love perverted/racist jokes. Anyways, what I mean to say is that you should be careful with your terms. There is no noble class, only the rich.

[JR-]

Ross and Brand. Say no more.

haha, very true.

[edyzmedieval]

Noble class...? What is this, the year 1100? Technically, I'm a noble(), but I hate a lot of forms of gentlemanly conduct or whatever you call it. Moreover, I'm not rich(lower-middle class), I have no table/dinner manners(well, I eat with my mouth closed, but that's it), I'm completely vulgar and crude, and love perverted/racist jokes. Anyways, what I mean to say is that you should be careful with your terms. There is no noble class, only the rich.

By noble class I mean the aristocracy, the people who behaved and had manners, the people of 1920's and 1930's. Where has this gone?

I don't say that we should start walking like them, dress like them and other forms of extremely mannered behaviour, it's just that even the basic ones are lacking, especially in a developed country like Switzerland! I would have expected that in Mali or Sierra Leone, some forgotten undeveloped countries in Africa.

I realise it is not necessary for someone who has D&G or some other brand shown as big as possible, but it is absolutely repulsive to see such things. Smaller ones, and nicely done, everyone loves that. Another example are those rappers, such as Lil Wayne and T-Pain (just their style is wrong, I love their music), have massive amounts of diamonds on them. Disgusting. Same goes for another guy called Busta Rhymes.

[Strike For The South]

Do you not understand bling!

[TinCow]

What you're essentially talking about here is the classic argument between New Money and Old Money. Old Money have manners and 'class', as they were brought up in a society in which money did not have to be earned, and thus appearance was all that was important. New Money are often wealthier and more business savvy because they had to work their way up the ladder, but they did not start out rich and thus did not spend their formative years being preened for Upper Class Society.

The notion that 'civilized' Old Money flaunt their wealth any less than New Money is questionable at best. The Bourbons are the most perfect example of the ultimate in Old Money, and yet Louis XIV certainly wasn't afraid of a little flaunting of wealth.

[Viking]

[...]in very developed countries where you would expect people to have a good taste when it comes to fashion and to behave properly.

(bold font added by me)

I do not really follow that logic, hehe.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Manners and good taste are always appropriate -- regardless of your personal pelf.

My father used to tell me (probably stealing the quotation) that:

There are several reasons why you might be forced to kill someone, but none that force you to be rude to him.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Oh, the unbearable vulgarities of the nouveaux riches...

Don't get me started!


All we can hope for is faith in the old adage: it takes three generations to make a gentleman.

I myself, however, have set out to prove that it can be managed within only one generation to turn a gentlemen into a nouveau pauvre.

[Viking]

Manners and good taste are always appropriate -- regardless of your personal pelf.

My father used to tell me (probably stealing the quotation) that:

There are several reasons why you might be forced to kill someone, but none that force you to be rude to him.

Now, why then. If I should ever meet the king; I should of course greet him with "his highness". Of course, nothing is more natural, my highness, following these good manners, geez.

Pretentious is a more accurate description than "highness", if I am allowed. Now, the former sentence is unnecessary; but abstaining from a certain glorification ad nauseam and preserving that little bit of self esteem by referring to humans as humans, and thus being "rude" in the process, is not. Expect not more than you give, I thought.

/rant

[lars573]

Manners and good taste are always appropriate -- regardless of your personal pelf.

My father used to tell me (probably stealing the quotation) that:

There are several reasons why you might be forced to kill someone, but none that force you to be rude to him.

Your father was quite wrong I'm afraid.

[Reverend Joe]

Why on earth would you want to be civilized?! Civilized people are vulgar, ignorant savages!

[Thermal]

i know what you mean, it annoys me especially because most rich people are born to wealth as a pose to earn it, which makes them stuck up and selfish out of luck....

any rich person i've met has been gastly, so i guess my views are biased anyway

[Ice]

There are several reasons why you might be forced to kill someone, but none that force you to be rude to him.

I love that quote.

[edyzmedieval]

Do you not understand bling!

Ya I do. I have a Mini Coupes in on dubs...I drink only Platinum Patron, wear a 30000 diamond encrusted watch, and have a chain that is 5kg of gold. That's bling.

Louis,

Please do get started on the vulgarities of the nouveaux riches.

[Strike For The South]

Ya I do. I have a Mini Coupes in on dubs...I drink only Platinum Patron, wear a 30000 diamond encrusted watch, and have a chain that is 5kg of gold. That's bling.

Ah yes the Eastern European obsession with basketball means we are also exporting urban culture....awesome simply awesome

[Yoyoma1910]

I have two things that *bling.*


My wife and my 12 gauge. Don't need any of that other garbage to make me look good.

[Koga No Goshi]

By noble class I mean the aristocracy, the people who behaved and had manners, the people of 1920's and 1930's. Where has this gone?

I don't say that we should start walking like them, dress like them and other forms of extremely mannered behaviour, it's just that even the basic ones are lacking, especially in a developed country like Switzerland! I would have expected that in Mali or Sierra Leone, some forgotten undeveloped countries in Africa.

I realise it is not necessary for someone who has D&G or some other brand shown as big as possible, but it is absolutely repulsive to see such things. Smaller ones, and nicely done, everyone loves that. Another example are those rappers, such as Lil Wayne and T-Pain (just their style is wrong, I love their music), have massive amounts of diamonds on them. Disgusting. Same goes for another guy called Busta Rhymes.

I am sure they are still there, it is just the crass exceptions like the Paris Hiltons who put out a sex video and get all the attention.

I think that "rich class" is more and more insulated and segregated from everyday life, including cameras and the media. In part because wealth has become so political and the idea of inherited wealth, at least in the U.S., is extremely frowned upon. Looking at most of the super-successful wealthy people in our country, and realizing that the majority of them didn't get there through their own ingenuity and fantastic good luck and fantastic hard work, really takes the wood out of the mythos Americans have that everyone who works hard "makes it", and only those who were lazy or stupid fail.