Specific units questions

[seireikhaan]

Indeed, a worthy guide.

Also, as to the OP- UM are useless. Granted, they hold slightly better than woodsmen, but both are so terrible at doing so that almost anything would be better. Woodsmen are far superior for recruiting purposes because they at least serve one purpose- flanking. UM do almost nothing with any degree of quality.

[cambovenzi]

Indeed, a worthy guide.

Also, as to the OP- UM are useless. Granted, they hold slightly better than woodsmen, but both are so terrible at doing so that almost anything would be better. Woodsmen are far superior for recruiting purposes because they at least serve one purpose- flanking. UM do almost nothing with any degree of quality.

well, in early game there isnt much of a choice.
UM or peasants.
and in certain areas woodsmen.

[oz_wwjd]

Actually that guide is slightly outdated,when it comes to some of the newer mods such as Tyberius Add-on,bit I don't see it being updated anytime soon.

[caravel]

Actually that guide is slightly outdated,when it comes to some of the newer mods such as Tyberius Add-on,bit I don't see it being updated anytime soon.

Guides usually only cover the Vanilla game unless stated otherwise.

[Fagar]

Indeed, a worthy guide.

Also, as to the OP- UM are useless. Granted, they hold slightly better than woodsmen, but both are so terrible at doing so that almost anything would be better. Woodsmen are far superior for recruiting purposes because they at least serve one purpose- flanking. UM do almost nothing with any degree of quality.

UM are by no means hardened troops but also are far from useless.
Early in the game when battles tend to be between armies consisting of 4-5 units and there are no teched up units the UM will more than hold their own and in fact their polearms are pretty devastating to lightly armoured troops.
They are versatile enough to have a unit or two kept in larger more advanced armies as fodder or bait while positioning the rest of your troops to full advantage against your opposition.
In this situation if they do get caught out they will generally hold a little better until the support arrives or your other troops get the job done as well.
The other advantage of this is that retraining is almost always availiable immediately because of the low tech level and in an experienced battle hardened army my UM units normally build up some pretty respectable valour this way.

[Roark]

Yeah, Urban Militia with 3-4 points of valour can be a very nasty surprise, and they are devastating against (pinned) Early cavalry. Cheap and cheerful, too.

[I of the Storm]

Hmm, as long as there are some trees for them to deploy in, they can hold out quite good and can be lifesavers for early HRE campaigns for example.

[seireikhaan]

I suppose I should mention that I'm quite used to playing the XL mod, where there's a lot more early infrastructure, not to mention that peasants were removed from the game.

So, end result is that UM not only are basically the bottom rung of the military, but are obsoleted extremely quickly.

[Fagar]

You are absolutely right UM are outdated extremely quickly in the XL mod, and realistically they are outdated quickly in vanilla.
But for what they are, a cheaply raised and maintained garrison force they can be reasonably handy.

[caravel]

A unit that is useful in desperation is still not a good unit. Peasants can save your skin if used correctly and at the right time. I would prefer a unit of Vanilla Spearmen to UM any day of the week. At least the latter can hold off cavalry for a little while. Militia Sergeants are much more worthwhile and I tend to skip UM and only train if absolutely necessary. UM are only dangerous if they're well upgraded and are under a good general, by that time you might as well train a better unit to replace the UM.

The only factions that find UM even remotely useful in early would be the HRE, Italians or French. The English have Fyrdmen (and Clansmen, Kerns and Gallowglasses!), The Danes - Vikings, the Spanish and Aragonese - Javelinmen, Jinetes, etc and the eastern factions have either Slav Javelins, Slav Warriors, Jobbagy, Vikings etc. The Turks and Byzantine don't need them - for obvious reasons, the Almohads certainly don't need them nor the Egyptians.

Of those factions that just might need UM, namely the French, HRE and Italians, I would still rather train Vanilla Spearmen. Also as the French have Hobilars to use as flankers early on that really leaves the UM somewhat redundant as the AP advantage is small considering that there won't be that many armoured units to deal with right at the start of the early era. This really leaves only the HRE and Italians with a possible need for UM at the beginning of the early era.