On the United Nations and the USA's role in foreign policy.

[Strike For The South]

From the other thread

My goal is not to pollute the world nor hurt people however our main adversaries do not care about any of these treaties. Russia China Iran dont give a :flower: about whats on those pieces of paper. I know its en vouge to please the Europeans but I will not do so if it means falling behind these powers who I guarantee you will be much worse than us.

America should aspire to be better than everyone as well. So why should we hamstring ourselves?

[CrossLOPER]

What are you talking about, specifically?

[CountArach]

What are you talking about, specifically?

Quick run-down from the other thread:

Strike claims that the US should be solely Isolationist and should pull out of the UN and other world organisations. The government should only answer to the American people and put their interests ahead of everyone else.

[LittleGrizzly]

My goal is not to pollute the world nor hurt people however our main adversaries do not care about any of these treaties. Russia China Iran dont give a :flower: about whats on those pieces of paper.

And with that kind of attitude we will get nowhere, these kind of selfish foriegn powers are pained to do anything which isn't directly in thier favour but through constant badgering and negoations we have managed to get selfish powers to do things for the common good before, hell it looks like the USA is going to start paying attention to global warming whereas years ago when america walked out on the kyoto protocol is seemed like a distant dream...

Also these pieces of paper do make a difference, china russia and iran may want to just ignore these pieces of paper but by getting world agreement on these kind of things we make it so much harder for them to simply ignore these things, even though it is against thier interest it is also against thier interest to piss off the rest of world, so we actually use thier selfishness against them by making it in thier interest to follow these treaties

America being the most powerful country in the world means it has a huge international effect, if the usa simply decides to ignore a treaty then a host of other countrys around the world also think what is the point, if the usa simply decides treatys and world rules mean nothing then a host of other countrys see this as thier chance to also flout the rules, with the usa holding to these treatys then other countrys have to be worried about a telling off and haven't got the usa as an excuse for breaking these rules/treatys...

I have often wondered whether an isolationist USA would be a good thing or not, america has the power to project lots of good but also the power lots of bad onto the world, under bush there has been a negative effect imo, but i think under obama that will change and the usa will have a much more positive effect on the world.... starting with climate change..

I know its en vouge to please the Europeans but I will not do so if it means falling behind these powers who I guarantee you will be much worse than us.

The problem is if america keeps using worse nations who could become superpowers themselves as an excuse, theres a danger in the effort you will actually end up no better than them.... i have no doubts russia and chinas intentions are far from pure but im not sure what great catashrophe people think will happen once china takes over america as the world power, they have too many economic interests to suddenly start a world war or something...

[Incongruous]

Leave some of those fingers to point at another culprit of dishonesty and duplicity, now look in the mirror.

[Sarmatian]

I don't have the exact numbers, but I'm pretty sure that in the last decade or two US broke/ignored/disobeyed much more international treaties than either China, Russia or Iran.

[Strike For The South]

Leave some of those fingers to point at another culprit of dishonesty and duplicity, now look in the mirror.

I don't have the exact numbers, but I'm pretty sure that in the last decade or two US broke/ignored/disobeyed much more international treaties than either China, Russia or Iran.

I dont support Bush or his polices. Simply because I dont want America to spearhead many international affairs or adhere to the rest of the world does not mean I want America to have a blank check to do whatever we please.

[Incongruous]

I dont support Bush or his polices. Simply because I dont want America to spearhead many international affairs or adhere to the rest of the world does not mean I want America to have a blank check to do whatever we please.

Ha! I love this constant talk of Bush, as if the U.S.A was acceptable beforehand. The Democrats are just as bad, if not worse, than the Republicans. I see no change in America's constant interference in the affairs of other states until it goes bust. Which is probably not that far off now.

[Strike For The South]

Ha! I love this constant talk of Bush, as if the U.S.A was acceptable beforehand. The Democrats are just as bad, if not worse, than the Republicans. I see no change in America's constant interference in the affairs of other states until it goes bust. Which is probably not that far off now.

I agree.

[Koga No Goshi]

but I will not do so if it means falling behind these powers who I guarantee you will be much worse than us.

I don't think what our "enemies" are doing in terms of interrogation, human rights, pollution regulations or anything else should be our yardstick for our own country. Especially if you want us to be "the best."

That's the problem with your argument Strike.... you want the U.S. to be the best, but doing things like yanking out of proliferation and pollution treaties is counterproductive. The future is not in burning more coal and building a lot more nukes. The future is in new tech and sciences and alternative energy and education. If simply having the biggest stockpile of weapons and the most lucrative free market economy would alone make us the best then we've been the best for decades and are not being seriously challenged (yet), so I fail to see why pulling out of these treaties was necessary with that goal in mind.

[Strike For The South]

I don't think what our "enemies" are doing in terms of interrogation, human rights, pollution regulations or anything else should be our yardstick for our own country. Especially if you want us to be "the best."

That's the problem with your argument Strike.... you want the U.S. to be the best, but doing things like yanking out of proliferation and pollution treaties is counterproductive. The future is not in burning more coal and building a lot more nukes. The future is in new tech and sciences and alternative energy and education. If simply having the biggest stockpile of weapons and the most lucrative free market economy would alone make us the best then we've been the best for decades and are not being seriously challenged (yet), so I fail to see why pulling out of these treaties was necessary with that goal in mind.

Once agian Im not saying lowering our stockpile or cleaning our air are bad things. What I am saying is that we should do these things on our own terms.

[Koga No Goshi]

Once agian Im not saying lowering our stockpile or cleaning our air are bad things. What I am saying is that we should do these things on our own terms.

Every single nation shares the same sky, Strike. America cleaning up or reducing its air pollutants doesn't matter if India and China just pick up the slack and make up whatever we're cutting. That's the point of these useless treaties.

[Strike For The South]

Every single nation shares the same sky, Strike. America cleaning up or reducing its air pollutants doesn't matter if India and China just pick up the slack and make up whatever we're cutting. That's the point of these useless treaties.

China and Indias business is theres. Do you really honestly believe China holds true to these? Besides let the Euros force these countries to sign. America should be out of all this entanglement

[LittleGrizzly]

Besides let the Euros force these countries to sign. America should be out of all this entanglement

You think europe can convince these countries alone, as you said these countrys are nothing if self interested, the developed world needs a united front if there is any hope to convince them to go along with it, if america does its own thing china will see no reason to listen to the euro's and will do its own thing like america...

If on the other hand pressure is brought to bear on china from america, euro's and other developed countrys they will be convinced to agree to these treaties because it will be in thier self interest...

[Incongruous]

China and Indias business is theres. Do you really honestly believe China holds true to these? Besides let the Euros force these countries to sign. America should be out of all this entanglement

TBH, if the U.S.A did create for itself a truly great enviromentl plan, I would not care if it kept it to itself. It would be such a leap foreward.

[Koga No Goshi]

China and Indias business is theres. Do you really honestly believe China holds true to these? Besides let the Euros force these countries to sign. America should be out of all this entanglement

No it's not, not when a very high percentage of CA's air pollution is blown around the pacific rim, past Alaska, down into CA, and gets trapped there.

This is an international problem Strike. Thinking like early 20th century fiefdoms is over, and should stay over.