View Poll Results: What should the GOP do?

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37. This poll is closed
  • Accept the new future and work as the minority conscience voice

    5 13.51%
  • Accept the new future, but work for power within it

    2 5.41%
  • Fall back, re-think, return to consevative basics

    27 72.97%
  • Fold

    6 16.22%
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Thread: What Next for the GOP?

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  1. #1
    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Next for the GOP?

    I think if he won the republican nomination after the democrats having 8 years like the republicans just did, unfortunatly its winning the republican nomination which is the impossible bit...

    For all the republicans fault i think alot of the blame has to goto Obama, though im sure the complete lack of fiscal sense, imperial war mongering and degradation of civil liberties didn't help...

    If the Republicans operated on something like the platform most republicans on this board want they would be a half decent party

    I think the main problem with this is

    But I think the panic you'd get... and it's not without reason I'm sure, is that it's hard to reconcile intellectualism with the pandering to just the opposite that a significant third or more of the GOP base requires in order to hit the polls. That whole crowd Sarah Palin hugely energized-- how do you get them with some soft spoken, intellectual Constitutional law scholar? And having to tell them, like spoiled children, no, you can't use law like just a bludgeon to legalize what you like and criminalize what you don't like, that that's not what conservative principles are about?

    There seems to be a huge base essential to conservative electoral success which almost seems anti-intellectual, i thought it was intresting that college educated males went mainly to obama, of the different groups they discussed only white males without a college education went more for mccain than obama (the groups were blacks, hispanics, college education and not college educated)
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  2. #2
    Member Member Koga No Goshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Next for the GOP?

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly View Post
    There seems to be a huge base essential to conservative electoral success which almost seems anti-intellectual, i thought it was intresting that college educated males went mainly to obama,
    There's nothing "almost" anti-intellectual about it. The history of anti-intellectualism in America is long and well documented both by Americans and third party social observers and writers.

    of the different groups they discussed only white males without a college education went more for mccain than obama (the groups were blacks, hispanics, college education and not college educated)
    This is precisely what was pandered to, along with the religious right and the economic elite/corporate constituencies, by the McCain campaign. But when I mentioned that in the election thread a lot of people got personally offended and said Obama's campaign targetting was no higher. The results, of course, don't bear that out at all.
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  3. #3
    Illuminated Moderator Pogo Panic Champion, Graveyard Champion, Missle Attack Champion, Ninja Kid Champion, Pop-Up Killer Champion, Ratman Ralph Champion GeneralHankerchief's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Next for the GOP?

    Your possible 2012 GOP primary.

    According to the blog post, we're looking at candidates from four establishments of the GOP: The Populist (either Huck or Palin), the Establishment Conservative (the author suggests Jeb Bush, but that'll never happen in a million years, so it's Romney), the Full-Spectrum Conservative (Jindal), and the National Security Candidate (Gen. Petraeus). Admittedly, I can't see Petraeus or Jeb running, and the author makes a good point about Jindal's waiting a while before he tries for the Presidency.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    As promised, here's my initial thoughts on what the Republican field will look like in four years. Obviously, there are many variables along the way, ranging from how beatable Obama looks to the 2010 midterms; I'm just forecasting with the known knowns we have today. As usual there will probably be 10 or so candidates, but from where we sit today there look to be four slots from which to put together a credible primary campaign:

    (1) The Populist Candidate: With its Washington leadership beheaded, the GOP is likely to become more of a populist and culturally conservative party in the next four years. Mike Huckabee showed this year the power and the limitations of a pure populist campaign, far exceeding expectations with nearly no resources or name recognition (although Huck was out of step with the populists on one of the major causes of grassroots frustration with DC, immigration). Against the backdrop of a tax-spend-regulate Obama Administration, a crucial challenge will be squaring populism with the GOP's need to appeal to economic and fiscal conservatives to expand out of the Huck-size niche. Realistically, the populist candidate is likely to end up as the most moderate serious candidate in the field.

    As things stand today, Sarah Palin is the obvious populist candidate and, for now, the very-very-early frontrunner for the 2012 nomination, given her now-massive name recognition (the woman's every TV appearance is a ratings bonanza), amazing talents as a retail politician, appeal to the base, and the GOP tendency towards nominating the next in line. Granted, only two candidates in the part century (Bob Dole and Franklin D. Roosevelt) have won a major party nomination after being the VP nominee for a losing ticket (not counting Mondale, who'd already been VP), those two waited 12 and 20 years before doing so, respectively, and recent history has been unkind to those who tried (Edwards 2008, Lieberman 2004 - see also Quayle 2000).

    I'll expand another day on the challenges facing Gov. Palin - the short answer is that inexperience is the easiest thing in the world to fix, but she'll have to face tougher budgetary times in Alaska in light of falling oil revenues, she'll have to withstand what is likely to be an ongoing national campaign by the Democrats to take her down or hobble her re-election efforts to cut off the likeliest threat to Obama, and she'll have to develop and sell her own, independent agenda and demonstrate a greater breadth and depth of knowledge on national politics than are required from the running mate slot. Upside in the primaries: the socially conservative, moose-hunting hockey mom could potentially be well-suited to the early GOP primary/caucus electorates in Iowa, New Hampshire and Michigan.

    (2) The Establishment Candidate: The GOP by tradition tends to fall in behind whoever is the candidate of the establishment - of country clubs and boardrooms and Beltway insiders. Part of being a Republican, of course, is having the maturity to understand that being the establishment candidate is not a bad thing. But an angry grassroots is going to take some serious persuading to pick another establishment figure.

    The best establishment candidate should be Jeb Bush, for a variety of reasons, but four years won't be enough - if any length of time is - to rebuild the Bush brand within the GOP, let alone the general electorate. That leaves Mitt Romney as the logical next step; Mitt is currently out of office and thus less equipped to get more experience, but he'll have the money and energy to spend four years staking himself out as a consistent conservative voice and putting the distance of time between 2012 and the flip-flop charges of 2008. South Dakota Senator John Thune is also sometimes mentioned, but after 1964, 1996 and now 2008, the GOP has hopefully learned its lesson about nominating legislators for President, especially sitting Senators. Newly re-elected Indiana Governor and former Bush budget director Mitch Daniels (see here and here) will have his name come up but more likely as a VP nominee.

    (3) The Full-Spectrum Conservative: The Fred Thompson role from 2008 but one that will pack a lot more potential appeal in 2012. Bobby Jindal is the best of the lot, but while he's already got an impressive resume, Jindal's so young (he's 37, which makes him the age Romney was in 1985), so he can afford to wait out several more election cycles; he's up for re-election in 2011, which makes running in 2012 very problematic; and he really and genuinely wants to stay in Louisiana long enough to make real changes in his beloved home state's legendarily corrupt and dysfunctional political culture. The other main contender for this slot is South Carolina's Governor Mark Sanford, now in his second term as Governor after 3 in Congress. SC is the most favorable turf for a candidate of this type among the early primary states, so with Sanford running as a favorite son he could basically block out any other challengers, and if he doesn't run for re-election in 2010 (offhand I don't know whether he's term-limited), he'd have a logistical advantage over Palin, who will presumably still be in office as governor of a geographically remote state.

    (4) The National Security Candidate: After four years of Obama, there's also likely to be strong sentiment for adult leadership on national security. Traditionally, the GOP has tended to prioritize this issue (in 2008, both McCain and Giuliani ran primarily as national security candidates). But especially with Senators in disfavor, the supply of candidates with more national security credentials than a typical Governor is short - most of the Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld types in the party will be past their prime by 2012, and I continue to doubt that Condi Rice could be a viable candidate for a multitude of reasons. The name you're likely to hear is CENTCOM commander General David Petraeus, but Gen. Petraeus - who I assume will remain on active duty for another year or two, at least, and who President Obama dare not fire - has no political experience and no known domestic-policy profile (we don't even know if he's a Republican). My guess is that if we nominate a governor in 2012, Gen. Petraeus will be much in demand as a running mate. After that, I'm not sure who will even try to fill this slot in the primaries.

    Sorry, but that's the list; the no-more-McCains sentiment among the base will make it impossible for someone like Tim Pawlenty to mount a credible campaign as a moderate, nobody will bother trying to re-create the crippling damage inflicted on Rudy Giuliani from running with a record as a social liberal, and no Ron Paul type candidate (especially Ron Paul) is ever going to make a serious dent. It's those four slots or bust.

    And I, for one, am definitely not committing yet to who I'll support as between Palin or a Sanford or Jindal run or maybe somebody else (obviously I'm not a Mitt fan). There's two long years ahead of us before that choice begins to arise.
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  4. #4
    Member Member Koga No Goshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Next for the GOP?

    .......

    If that author thinks running Jeb Bush or Mitt or Sarah Palin in '12 is sufficient reform away from what just got totally backhand-smacked last night, I hope he doesn't represent the brainpower of the GOP.
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  5. #5
    Illuminated Moderator Pogo Panic Champion, Graveyard Champion, Missle Attack Champion, Ninja Kid Champion, Pop-Up Killer Champion, Ratman Ralph Champion GeneralHankerchief's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Next for the GOP?

    I don't really know too much about Jeb so I can't say for sure about him. But I do know that he has absolutely no shot of winning anything on a national stage; his name is now poison.

    Mitt, before he got sucked into the evangelical trap, ran as a fiscal conservative and was the "I understand the economy" candidate. I think, had he gotten the nod, things might have gone a lot differently in terms of response to the financial crisis. One way or another, Mitt would have had a plan, which is something I can't really say for President-elect Obama or Senator McCain.

    As for Palin, she was 4 years ahead of her time. Put her running a state for long enough and you're experienced, no matter how small the state is. Even with four more years of training, I think she's too damaged goods to try for a national office nowadays.

    Anyway, this wasn't the author's choice, just a prediction of who would run.
    "I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
    "Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
    "I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
    Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
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  6. #6
    Member Member Koga No Goshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Next for the GOP?

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief View Post
    I don't really know too much about Jeb so I can't say for sure about him. But I do know that he has absolutely no shot of winning anything on a national stage; his name is now poison.

    Mitt, before he got sucked into the evangelical trap, ran as a fiscal conservative and was the "I understand the economy" candidate. I think, had he gotten the nod, things might have gone a lot differently in terms of response to the financial crisis. One way or another, Mitt would have had a plan, which is something I can't really say for President-elect Obama or Senator McCain.

    As for Palin, she was 4 years ahead of her time. Put her running a state for long enough and you're experienced, no matter how small the state is. Even with four more years of training, I think she's too damaged goods to try for a national office nowadays.

    Anyway, this wasn't the author's choice, just a prediction of who would run.
    Agreed. The point was not are these candidates experienced enough or qualified enough in terms of Washington standards of who is fit to run for President on a major ticket. I think IF the GOP is thinking along these lines, it is thinking way off-target in terms of what, exactly, got rejected last night.

    People are already predicting that one possible GOP reaction is going to be "we weren't Republican enough", and go even harder back to the far-right base. But I think if it does that, it is, at least for a considerable time being, going to remain marginalized.

    This is what I alluded to earlier. John McCain talked about tax cuts (for the wealthy.) If the GOP's response to his loss is... we need someone who says TAX CUTS in a different inflection and at a much louder volume.... then they will only start winning again when the Dems do something major to screw up, or the electorate gets sick of them, or the electorate gets complacent and unalarmed about how bad leadership can be like they did by the end of Clinton's admin.
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  7. #7
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re : What Next for the GOP?

    MCain bet his campaign on the extremist block of the Republicans. Maybe he didn't have a choice, but lose he did.

    I still wonder what the outcome would've been if McCain had moved to the centre. The 'Clinton Democrats' didn't automatically rush to Obama. Independents and centrists, states like Ohio, Pennsylvania and Indiana were up for grabs for a centrist Republican.

    I am not a poll God like CountArach, so I am not sure if McCain could've won by moving to the centre like Obama did. But from anecdotal evidence, and even personal preference, I say there were a lot of centrists up for grabs, who were open to a McCain presidency until they were driven away by Palin, by McCain's pandering to the extreme right, by flag waving and 'country first' signs, by a dirty campaign, by McCain ditching his reputiation as an independent Republican.


    According to the blog post, we're looking at candidates from four establishments of the GOP: The Populist (either Huck or Palin), the Establishment Conservative (the author suggests Jeb Bush, but that'll never happen in a million years, so it's Romney), the Full-Spectrum Conservative (Jindal), and the National Security Candidate (Gen. Petraeus).
    Those are old answers to yesterday's problems. For example, 'National Security' candidates work best when there's a fearmongering president in power.


    Besides, it's the economy, stupid! This decides the fate of Democratic candidates.
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