Odessy

[oudysseos]

The Robert Fagles translations of the Iliad and Odyssey are widely considered to be masterpieces: whether or not they are the best is a matter of opinion. I think they'd be hard to beat. Lattimore's translations are also very good. Generally speaking, the older the translation, the more difficult you'll find it. Pope's translations, for instance, are classics, but can be a hard slog for the modern reader.

So go with Fagles, absolutely. The introductory essay by Bernard Knox is a worthy read in its own right. For some background to the period you simply must read Helen of Troy by Bettany Hughes. This is not one of those historical fiction autobiographies but a fantastic exploration of the late bronze age and the roles that Helen hasa played in our myths and legends.

Here are some googlebooks previews, which seem to include the entire introductory essays by Knox. Joyeux Noel.

http://books.google.com/books?id=TpS...fagles#PPP1,M1

http://books.google.com/books?id=lZW...=robert+fagles


P.S. Ajax is mainly a character in the Iliad, not the Odyssey.

P.P.S. Don't sweat the Greek: even the Greeks themselves needed special help to read Homer.

[Celtic_Punk]

awesome, thankyou fellow mick. I'll check my library and see if they can hook me up with one.

and still Ajax is mentioned in the Odyssey i believe. So hes my favourite character. Hes my favourite mythological character of all time.. next to The Hound of Ulster. who i am aptly named after.

[theoldbelgian]

I think the Iliad was the story of the siege of troy and Ajax killed himself during that
the odyssey is basically the story after that about the journey home of Odysseus( boy was he one lousy map reader)

[Celtic_Punk]

haha, well i gotta hand it to him, I wouldnt want to deal with the Agean in a storm. rocks, islands, sirens, seamonsters, and pirates to boot!

[cmacq]

haha, well i gotta hand it to him, I wouldnt want to deal with the Agean in a storm. rocks, islands, sirens, seamonsters, and pirates to boot!

All very common misconceptions.

Μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος
οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾿ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾿ ἔθηκε,
πολλὰς δ᾿ ἰφθίμους ψυχὰς Ἄϊδι προΐαψεν
ἡρώων, αὐτοὺς δὲ ἑλώρια τεῦχε κύνεσσιν
οἰωνοῖσί τε πᾶσι· Διὸς δ᾿ ἐτελείετο βουλή,
ἐξ οὗ δὴ τὰ πρῶτα διαστήτην ἐρίσαντε
Ἀτρεΐδης τε ἄναξ ἀνδρῶν καὶ δῖος Ἀχιλλεύς.

Goddess sing to us of anger, whereby Peleus' son Achilles,
ruined the Achaeans, without number, and fixed their pain,
were many stout souls to Hades, all heroes untimely sent,
their remains, the ready prize, of every dog and bird of prey,
this God fulfilled by design, yet not before quarrel set apart,
divine Achilles, and Atreus’ son, the master of upraised men.

Actually, the 24 books of the Iliad cover only about two weeks during the last year of the decade long war between the Trojans and Achaeans. It begins with Agamemnon’s seizure of Briseis, Achilles’ royal prize, his withdrawal from battle; and ends with the funeral of Hector. Telamonian-Ajax was not killed in the Iliad, rather therein he recovered the body of Patroclus, yet lost Achilles’ barrowed armour to Hector.

The death of Ajax was included in the Aethiopis and the Little Iliad, within the greater Trojan War Cycle, of which the Iliad is one part.

On the other hand...

ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·
πολλῶν δ᾽ ἀνθρώπων ἴδεν ἄστεα καὶ νόον ἔγνω,
πολλὰ δ᾽ ὅ γ᾽ ἐν πόντῳ πάθεν ἄλγεα ὃν κατὰ θυμόν,
ἀρνύμενος ἥν τε ψυχὴν καὶ νόστον ἑταίρων.
ἀλλ᾽ οὐδ᾽ ὣς ἑτάρους ἐρρύσατο, ἱέμενός περ·
αὐτῶν γὰρ σφετέρῃσιν ἀτασθαλίῃσιν ὄλοντο,
νήπιοι, οἳ κατὰ βοῦς Ὑπερίονος Ἠελίοιο
ἤσθιον· αὐτὰρ ὁ τοῖσιν ἀφείλετο νόστιμον ἦμαρ.

τῶν ἁμόθεν γε, θεά, θύγατερ Διός, εἰπὲ καὶ ἡμῖν.

Muse recall for us, the man much-travelled, of this most far and wide,
made to wonder, after the divine citadel of Troy was thrown asunder:
he beheld the men from many nations, and came to learn their minds,
indeed on the sea he suffered many pains, that caused his heart to fall,
from which he won for himself, his life and a fair wind homeward bound,
yet thusly he could not save his comrades, although this he did desire,
a reason provided, themselves for their bold sins, whereby they died,
not but children, whom the most-high Sun at noon put down as cows,
then consumed for after all, the day of their return had been deigned.

Indeed of this that follows, goddess, God's daughter, speak through me.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
These were as close to poetic English, that tries to capture the Homeric style, as I can come.

With the exceptions of an ill conceived attack on an Aegean island, a tour of the Levant, a raid on Egypt, and a quick trip to Denmark, the Odyssey mostly took place in the middle and western Mediterranean.



CmacQ

[oudysseos]

Celtic Punk, are you actually named Cuchullain? That's wild. Even in Ireland I've never met anyone by that name.

BTW, if you can find a copy, William Stanford's The Ulysses Theme is an excellent book, although it deals more with the adaptable hero in his many guises, from Homer to Joyce.

[keravnos]

Right after the..

Ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσε·

comes my favorite verse of Odyssey, ever since I read it is the following..

πολλῶν δ’ ἀνθρώπων ἴδεν ἄστεα καὶ νόον ἔγνω,

meaning, "He saw the cities of many men (peoples) and learned their mind (way of thinking)"
It is one of those phrases that really stick on a person's mind, this one particularly stuck in mine.
I guess it is one of the reasons why I find History so appealing.

If you want to read the first chapter of Odyssey,
http://sjcsfarchive.org/drupal/files...y_1_1-10_0.pdf

[Wausser]

I think the Iliad was the story of the siege of troy and Ajax killed himself during that
the odyssey is basically the story after that about the journey home of Odysseus( boy was he one lousy map reader)

Yeah that's true althought the Illias is about the wrath of Achilles and is situated in 40 days of the Trojan war. The Odyssey is about the quest of Odysseus on his way home after the Trojan war.

[Celtic_Punk]

hmmm on that same note, what about the Iliad? anyone know of any equally good translations/literations

[abou]

Fagles did a version of the Illiad as well as the Aeneid.

As Oudysseos mentioned, there are several different translations of many of these works. Fagles is generally considered the best because it isn't just a good translation, but good English poetry as well. So, what does that mean? That means it's dense, heady, and can be a difficult read for someone who doesn't read a lot of poetry. So just take that as a caveat.

[Wausser]

I've read a pretty decent translation of the Odyssey, but it only appeared in Dutch....




Btw I just hate the English names for classical names/books/things

Iilias, Odysseia, Aeneïs, Homerus(or Homeros), Vergillius, Ovidius etc.