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Thread: Clan Leadership

  1. #1
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Clan Leadership

    Hey All,



    I need advice. Is having 3 People Co-Lead a 30 Member Clan, my clan, BHC, a good idea? First it was me, then now my 2 members ( 1 been in for almost 3 years, joined on RTW, but 1 only been in for almost only 2 months). Is it a good idea to have more then 1 person lead a clan? I think my co-leaders are conpriacing aganist me....

  2. #2
    the G-Diffuser Senior Member pevergreen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    Always IMO, have one person with the highest power. http://www.freewebs.com/blackgryphons/roster.htm for example. You have people "leading" but always one with the highest power.
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  3. #3
    Robot Unicorn Member Kekvit Irae's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    A triumvirate for such a small clan is never really a wise idea. Maybe electing a vice-captain under you to help with matters when you aren't present, but your clan isn't big enough to warrant three people with equal power.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    I'd be inclined to say no. That's a bad idea.

  5. #5
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by {BHC}AntiWarmanCake88 View Post
    Hey All,



    I need advice. Is having 3 People Co-Lead a 30 Member Clan, my clan, BHC, a good idea? First it was me, then now my 2 members ( 1 been in for almost 3 years, joined on RTW, but 1 only been in for almost only 2 months). Is it a good idea to have more then 1 person lead a clan? I think my co-leaders are conpriacing aganist me....
    It's been my experience in dealing with internet groups that one person should be the acknowledged leader, and power sharing leads to troubles.

    If there's any physical hardware, domain registrations, or forum backups, etc., that same person in charge should have physical control over those as well.

    Again, that's from what I've seen.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

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    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    I'm Meeting with them on Tuesday on MSN before we go on COD4 (I am sole leader of BHC on TW, no problem here, just on COD4, where I am worry of) and I tell them then, I like to be sole leader (I should be, I made this clan on TW in June 2004).


    But how should I present this to them? What postions should I let them hold?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    Give them positions that sound official and important but don't give them any power whatsoever. That's the way to do it.

  8. #8
    Hǫrðar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    Ideally, I guess there's only one leader at top. However, there should be someone who you could trust enough to be assistant leaders; one leader and no one else with real powers sounds like a bad idea. Powers as in them being able to add, and perhaps kick, members to/from the clan. If there are no one in the clan one can trust enough to assign to such positions of power, it's far from a well functioning clan.
    Last edited by Viking; 10-19-2008 at 19:17.
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    Master Procrastinator Member TevashSzat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    Yea, make sure there is one leader like everyone said before.

    That way, if there is an argument and a schism occurs, the clan wouldn't fall apart as easily.

    In my guild wars guild, one officer and the guild master had an argument irl (they were college buddies) and out of spite, the officer kicked everyone lower than him out of the guild and it just basically collapsed afterwards since most people immedietely got into other guilds they had friends in....we were pretty good too, top 200 ranked
    "I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." - Issac Newton

  10. #10

    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    One person at the top with some assistant leaders (officers) works well in casual clans with varying amounts of member activity, but total democracy can also function if the clan is cohesive and competitive.

    By this I mean really cohesive - as in, same nationality and some ties in real life. The all-Finn Guild Wars guild (around top 20 for about two years) I was in had a policy of shared leadership and it worked quite well, with responsibilities and assets (like vent servers, wiki, prize conversion to money, contact persons etc.) delegated to members with the time, inclination and ability to take care of these duties. Daily dialogue over an irc channel or vent made it all work.

    That way, if there is an argument and a schism occurs, the clan wouldn't fall apart as easily.
    Arguments happen in competitive environments all the time, it's just a matter of identifying and dealing with the problems. Sounds like the officer in your example was clearly ill fit to be in a competitive guild, and the guild in general was not solid enough to survive any reformation.

  11. #11
    Member Member Decker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    Just hire some thugs to go beat them up in real life... should work... works for Diablo anyways



    But in all seriousness, what the others said is what you should do... if you've been around as long or longer, you are inclined to the top position, the others under you... especially the new guy...
    Last edited by Decker; 10-21-2008 at 07:06.
    "No one said it was gonna be easy! If it was, everyone would do it..that's who you know who really wants it."

    All us men suffer in equal parts, it's our lot in life, and no man goes without a broken heart or a lost love. Like holding your dog as he takes his last breath and dies in your arms, it's a rite of passage. Unavoidable. And honestly, I can't imagine life without that depth of feeling.-Bierut

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    Toh-GAH-koo-reh Member Togakure's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    The point about maintaining control of physical assets--the website and forum, information resources etc.--is particularly good advice. If these can be compromised then control is compromised. I've only given control over these to members that I trusted completely.

    As a leader you will encourage loyalty and commitment by sharing responsibilities and associated prestige. My preferred method has been to acknowledge others who have demonstrated trustworthiness, solid values, and loyalty over time by sharing responsibilities like moderating, recruiting and training, documenting, and tactical leadership in game--and even administrating as an ultimate perk. As mentioned, the last should be reserved for those you trust completely, else you could end up with destroyed assets if a power contest turns into a war.

    Many so-called leaders view others as "tools," to be used to accomplish their objectives. For a group to truly excel beyond the vision and capability of that leader, others need to be free to consider, decide and act for the benefit of the organization. Generally speaking, an executive's primary roles are 1) to be a model leader, and 2) to identify potential co-leaders possessing the right capabilities and values, and provide clearly defined domains for them in which to operate. Then they need to let go, maintaining override authority but only using it when absolutely necessary. In such cases it is very important that the domain leader understands why an executive override was needed. Ideally the domain leader is convinced privately and makes the public decision/announcement so perceived authority isn't compromised.

    There is always risk (incorrectly assessing/choosing leaders), but as they say, "no guts, no glory." An organization ruled by a tyrant cannot aspire to the heights possible for a group of synergized leaders.
    Be intent on loyalty
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  13. #13
    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    Something to consider of your assistant/co leader(s) do they share the same views as you ? for example they may want more or less recruitment than you do... a higher or lower skill levelas basic to join the clan...

    you want someone with relatviely similar views and a loyalty to the clan (shown by years of loyalty 2 months is not long enough to earn that kind of trust...)
    In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!

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    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    My Friend been in the clan going on 3 years now (retructed him on RTW, now we do TW and COD4/5). We have similar views.



    I propose the consuil idea, but he wants to be the leader and stick me and the 3rd co-leader in consuil also. He more active then I am, due to my wrists, but I got more time then him in clan (I been in going on 5 years) and I made the clan.


    Advice?

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    Robot Unicorn Member Kekvit Irae's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    At this point, your clan is officially dead. either declare a coup or start a new clan from the more loyal members.

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    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    I shall do that. BHC had 2 civil Wars, I guess a 3rd one is coming.....

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    Hǫrðar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by {BHC}AntiWarmanCake88 View Post
    My Friend been in the clan going on 3 years now (retructed him on RTW, now we do TW and COD4/5). We have similar views.



    I propose the consuil idea, but he wants to be the leader and stick me and the 3rd co-leader in consuil also. He more active then I am, due to my wrists, but I got more time then him in clan (I been in going on 5 years) and I made the clan.


    Advice?

    Gah! You cannot resign from your leader position only because someone else wants it. A clan leader needs to show authority and should display great self confidence; i.e. he always know what to do. Resigning simply because someone suggested it is the ultimate sign of weakness. Btw, is he an assh. or a cold blooded fellow to demand the position that outright?
    Last edited by Viking; 10-27-2008 at 20:13.
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    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    Cold Blooded he is. Me Scared now

  19. #19
    Robot Unicorn Member Kekvit Irae's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    You could always appoint me as the clan "political officer", and allow me to "boot" members and officers as needed.


    "From this arises the question whether it is better to be loved rather than feared, or feared rather than loved. It might perhaps be answered that we should wish to be both: but since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved."
    -Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince

  20. #20
    Member Member Decker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by {BHC}AntiWarmanCake88 View Post
    Cold Blooded he is. Me Scared now
    Just tell him that it's not his right to tell you what to do. Tell him that it's YOUR clan and your business. Not his. If he doesn't agree... boot him out and his followers should clear out in no time If not... hire Kekvit Irae
    "No one said it was gonna be easy! If it was, everyone would do it..that's who you know who really wants it."

    All us men suffer in equal parts, it's our lot in life, and no man goes without a broken heart or a lost love. Like holding your dog as he takes his last breath and dies in your arms, it's a rite of passage. Unavoidable. And honestly, I can't imagine life without that depth of feeling.-Bierut

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    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    yea it might work
    but only if we are a corporation and everyone was contributing equally to the running costs for the clan
    then we would have to vote on who does what positions for a 12 month term of office.
    but if its a case of me financially paying for everything (as it is), then im afraid i will be the clan leader on cod4
    with a council of leaders for admin/advisory matters
    That what he just sent me in e-mail when I suggested nicely I be leader and he be 2nd in command.....



    he pays for things, and I don't got much money to pay, but I been in the damn clan longer then him. I made the clan on TW, and brought it to COD4.


    Should I just do what Decker saids? I already e-mailed some members about their support towards me if a war brakes out.



    Ms.Kekvit Irae, would you like to join?

  22. #22
    Robot Unicorn Member Kekvit Irae's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    Why does someone need to "financially support" the clan? You're the founder, and thus you're the owner.

  23. #23
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    Pay to run the Server I guess. But I made the clan, I run BHC's Website/Fourm on TW, so I should be able to run it on COD4. I see people donate to servers on BF2 and the leaders sometimes don't donate much, so doesn't matter.

    http://www.freewebs.com/blackhawkclan8/

    My TW Website


    My COD4 website btw

    http://www.bhc-rangers.com/


    I'm going to e-mail him soon, Any more Advice Kekvit?

  24. #24
    Robot Unicorn Member Kekvit Irae's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    Just because someone pays for the website doesn't grant them ownership of the organization.

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    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    The website is free, he justs pays for the servers.

    I shall E-mail him now and tell him I am going to be Leader, and he is removed from the clan. Good Idea?

  26. #26

    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    No need to remove him from the clan. Then you're just creating factions. Just say that you'd like to remain leader and it is your clan. You're grateful for his continued support (yada, yada) but you still want to be leader.

  27. #27
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    He might try to "fight bacK" since he has p/w for site and I don't. Neverthenless, I should be the leader, regardless of who pays.

    Max,

    Mind you, this is BHC, and you know who made it.

    In Which, I want to return as the Leader. Paying for servers does not make you a leader of this clan. I seen people in other clan donate more then what the leaders does, and the leader is.... the leader, and the clan still runs. No offense, bu like I said, paying for server does not grant you ownership of BHC. And the Site? I can help with the site... just you haven't sent me anything....



    I thank you for your contiuned support and loyatly for BHC, but I like it if you hand power back over to me now Max.

    Thanks.



    Pitbull hasnt got access to website , only on server control panel,which he hasnt used yet
    the server control panel lets you stop the server,if its lagging,reboot server, also select mod we use.
    but since weve had probs with mods we only using extreme ,since it works ok,
    but im trying to get a sniper weapon only mod ,for occational use
    both servers are rebooted by gtx every morning at 5.20am,
    i used to do it also ,but now dont have to
    i just adjust the settings to what we use,ie hardcore with ff on ,as per website pic, and let the server run.
    the only person who had access to the website was Bulldog,i had to give him my admin username and pw , cause i coudnt set up another admin for website, he then did a bit of streamlining and editing
    i then picked the current theme,cause it was more "Army "like than any of the others. bulldog supplied the banners we use and the backround cammo.
    i installed the teamspeak and other html codes we have on the website,
    but im surprised i havent see much posting from you on the forum,
    other guys are using it as ameans of communication,and it looks good now

    the reason i want so many Cos is because we are gonna have 2 more servers soon and we need to spread the work load a bit
    we will lose about 70 percent of the members that are listed on website,
    due to no activity at all and those who dont play much(i dnt include you in this)as you are a Co and deserve the respect that goes with it.

    last thing i want is unhappy leaders and members, thats why i want to set up meetings with proper agendas,so that everyhting is upfront
    i can set you up as a moderator with the server,i havent done this before as youve been occupied with rtw, and thot that was your preferance.
    get back to me


    His E-mail he sent me now (1 minute before I e-mailed him).

    This is what I said... He on now.... Wish me luck
    Last edited by ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88; 10-27-2008 at 23:08.

  28. #28
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    Eh, it backfired and they forced me out of the clan

    However, I regain control of BHC on TW though, not a total loss

  29. #29

    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    Don't just roll over! Crush those backstabbers !

    : )
    Last edited by Daimon; 11-06-2008 at 00:26.

  30. #30
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clan Leadership

    Yeah, I fight to the end for my clan BHC

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