Prop 8 to pass?

[LittleGrizzly]

Isn't part of a consitituion's remit supposed to protect against the tyranny of the majority

[ajaxfetish]

The fundamental idea of a marriage is that it is between one man and one woman.

You're welcome to assume this is true. You are not welcome to assume everyone else agrees with you. We don't. And you addressed one of my examples (which are a mere handful of the thousands of words that have changed meaning over time). What about 'villain'? What's the fundamental meaning of the word, and how has it stayed the same from when it meant peasants to when it meant evildoers? You're making up a rule that doesn't exist, and then trying to use that rule to prevent a large group of people from enjoying the familial structure they desire.

Ajax

[HoreTore]

Quite a few countries don't have that.

What? Seriously? I should be very happy I live in Norway then.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

What? Seriously? I should be very happy I live in Norway then.

Under the aegis of the family medical leave act, all US employers with 50+ employees must offer up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave to employees who can demonstrate that some medical crisis (or a new child) in their close family requires their assistance. Companies can, at their discretion, provide paid medical leave in such instances. Hospitalization etc. is usually covered (in large part) by the medical insurance one has through one's work.

In practice, many mothers take leave (though rarely the full 12 weeks) after downloading a new human, but very few fathers do so. They'd find themselves too far behind in their work and/or haven't built up a 3-6 month expenditures cushion as is recommended by financial planners.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Now it's just getting weird.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Theater felt growing pressure before artistic director quit
By Marcus Crowder
mcrowder@sacbee.com
Published: Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2008 | Page 7B

The California Musical Theatre found itaself caught in a dramatic conflict between free speech and civil rights, a situation that ultimately led to today's resignation of artistic director Scott Eckern.

Eckern quit this morning. He became the target of strong criticism after it was learned he donated $1,000 to the Proposition 8 campaign to ban gay marriage.

In an industry long considered gay-friendly and tied to causes such as AIDS research, Eckern's donation outraged theater workers across the country.

In Sacramento, a number of the musical theater's supporters contacted The Bee to rally behind the embattled Eckern, stating that he was now a victim of intolerance and persecution himself.

Playbill and other media have said he issued an apology and plans to donate $1,000 to a nonprofit committed to achieving equal rights for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people.

When Tony Award-winner Marc Shaiman, the composer of "Hairspray," read of Eckern's donation last week, he urged artists and theater workers across the country to boycott the theater.

On Tuesday, Kellie Randle and a group of like-minded friends launched www.supportscotteckern.blogspot.com to advocate for Eckern.

"It's everyone's First Amendment right to contribute to the causes they believe in and voice their political choice," Randle said. To show the abuse against Eckern, Randle's site links to the Clyde Fitch Report, one of numerous blogs now weighing in on the debate.

"I'm so enraged at the hypocrisy of the No on 8 community. I could care less how he voted on any issue. It's about what he does in his job. This is persecution," Randle said.

Other community members, including Kitty Wilson of Curtis Park, echoed this sentiment.

"Before any gay person talks about blacklisting anyone in theater, I'll remind them what McCarthy's blacklist did to the entire entertainment industry," Wilson said.

The idea of a blacklist and boycott have grown from Shaiman's postings and e-mails. The composer, who is openly gay, said he read about Eckern's contribution to the campaign on the Web site www.datalounge.com, and he felt he had to do something.

"I was so shocked. I'm dealing myself with being legally discriminated against, and then come to find out, I helped put money in his pocket that helped get this proposition passed," Shaiman said in a telephone interview.

Shaiman sent an e-mail which has reverberated through the national theater community and backed the CMT's leaders into the unusual position of doing damage control. He wrote he wouldn't allow his work to be done at California Musical Theatre, and theater workers around the country have followed his lead.

"No one should be surprised in 2008 at how fast information can be spread, and that's of course a doubled-edged sword," Shaiman said.

Susan Egan, star of "Thoroughly Modern Millie" and "Cabaret," followed with a similar e-mail.

Theater professionals flooded CMT's offices over the weekend with phone calls and e-mails decrying Eckern's actions.

In a statement released Monday, CMT executive producer Richard Lewis said: "Any political action or the opinion of Scott Eckern is not shared by California Musical Theatre. We have a long history of appreciation for the LGBT community and are truly grateful for their longstanding support."

New York talent agent Chris Nichols, who negotiated three of the four contracts for the actors employed in CMT's "Forever Plaid" at the Cosmopolitan Cabaret in Sacramento, said New York is watching the situation closely.

"I woke up to Susan Egan's e-mail Monday morning and have received that e-mail 11 times in less than 48 hours," Nichols said. "I would say the industry is buzzing. I took no less than half a dozen phone calls from clients today who are working in various theaters across the country asking if it was true."

Frank Schubert, the local campaign manager for Yes on Prop. 8, wrote a letter of support for Eckern on Tuesday, faxing it to all of CMT's board members.

"Mr. Eckern unfortunately is the victim of what appears to be a systematic attempt to harass and intimidate anybody who had the courage to stand up and support traditional marriage," Schubert said by phone. "There's nothing about supporting traditional marriage which is anti-gay."

Shaiman hopes the episode leads to better understanding of gay people.

"I love God. And this is how God made me," he said. "How people can say this is a choice? Unless you are – you don't know."

Not the best way to attract people to the cause of equality and tolerance, methinks.

[Strike For The South]

The only equal and tolerable if you agree with them bubba. Otherwise they will run you out and call you a bigot.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I'm just glad people are getting wise to the fact that the homosexual activists aren't looking to compromise.

[LittleGrizzly]

I'm just glad people are getting wise to the fact that the homosexual activists aren't looking to compromise.

And i suppose any kind of negativety towards gay people is showing that the anti homosexual activists aren't looking to compromise... i think you'll find the gays activists are a much nicer crowd.... though this is of course bad publicity i can somewhat understand the motive, i wouldn't want to support a movement so against my gayness and im sure my gay friends would want to know that thier money is used against them in this way

Not to say that the traditional marriage supporters are anti gay but it is easy to see why they see it as this when there are anti gay elements, and the discrimination suffered throughout recent history

[HoreTore]

Under the aegis of the family medical leave act, all US employers with 50+ employees must offer up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave to employees who can demonstrate that some medical crisis (or a new child) in their close family requires their assistance. Companies can, at their discretion, provide paid medical leave in such instances. Hospitalization etc. is usually covered (in large part) by the medical insurance one has through one's work.

In practice, many mothers take leave (though rarely the full 12 weeks) after downloading a new human, but very few fathers do so. They'd find themselves too far behind in their work and/or haven't built up a 3-6 month expenditures cushion as is recommended by financial planners.

Right. I'm off to thank my mother for not raising me in the united states.

[Askthepizzaguy]

falls flat... try to sneak... persuade enough people and they'll get it... Ramming it thru... leads to backlashes.

Mmmm....

I'm trying to be serious but it's so hard when you use such colorful language.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I wish this really, really, Bush-level bad argument would be retired by the opponents of gay marriage already. It's utterly ridiculous.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...-ridicule.html

Description of Appeal to Ridicule

The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is substituted for evidence in an "argument." This line of "reasoning" has the following form:

1. X, which is some form of ridicule is presented (typically directed at the claim).
2. Therefore claim C is false.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because mocking a claim does not show that it is false. This is especially clear in the following example: "1+1=2! That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!"

Oh, and some no-to-Prop 8 supporters are going way past the crazy nut one the fringe zone:

White powder sent to Mormon temples in Utah, LA

LOS ANGELES (AP) - Letters containing a suspicious white powder were sent Thursday to Mormon temples in Los Angeles and Salt Lake City that were the sites of protests against the church's support of California's gay marriage ban.

The temple in the Westwood area of Los Angeles was evacuated before a hazardous materials crew determined the envelope's contents were not toxic, said FBI spokesman Jason Pack.

The temple in downtown Salt Lake City, where the church is based, received a similar envelope containing a white powder that spilled onto a clerk's hand.

The room was decontaminated and the envelope taken by the FBI for testing. The clerk showed no signs of illness, but the scare shut down a building at Temple Square for more than an hour, said Scott Freitag, a spokesman for the Salt Lake City Fire Department.

None of the writing on the envelope was threatening, and the church received no calls or messages related to the package, Freitag said.

Protests in recent days have targeted the Mormon church, which encouraged its members to fight the recently passed amendment banning gay marriage in California.

Authorities are looking into several theories on who sent the letters and why, Pack said.

Anthrax mailed as a white powder to Washington lawmakers and media outlets killed five people and sickened 17 just weeks after the attacks of September 11, 2001. Periodic hoaxes modeled on the anthrax mailings have popped up since then but usually prove harmless.

And then there was that crowd of prop 8 protesters that assaulted an old woman and was close to getting even more violent. There's a lot of hate in those liberal people.

CR

[Strike For The South]

Trample the majority because you are right. That a way!