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Thread: Archived campaign: Spain (defensive)

  1. #1

    Default Archived campaign: Spain (defensive)

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    EDIT: Conquest for Spain (original thread title)

    Due to the effects and aftermath of the Spanish bug this thread (and all the efforts put into it)
    was eventually and regretably abandoned. Sad but true.
    - Axalon
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Since the spanish faction seems to be so hard to play, I deside to drop my russian conquest and start a new one as Spain on the Expert level.

    In this topic I want to share the spanish conquest of the World under the 700 year rule of William the Silent. This can lead to eternal Redux Glory (or Shame ), since Axalon made the Moors seemingly invincible.
    I wil show how to submit them to spanish superiority with the use of all the little available economic resources and poor militairy resources, but superior militairy/economic skill, intrige and diplomacy of me: William the Silent Conqueror.

    In the coming days, or weeks, or months, or years I will show my progress in this topic . (I can always cheat by going back in time ).

    700 AD.
    Here the story begins:
    My first king, Alfonso I, has the task to start me off and built a good economy, with good militairy resources. The main focus is going to be on how to defeat the greatest threat of all: the Moor invasion of Spain.

    Cordoba will have to be taken in the future. We don't want to upset the Moors right from the beginning. So we make alliance.

    730 AD.
    First conquest:
    So we will first try to take "gimmy" Navarra. For that we have to built enough troops to hold it after takeover. That happens in this year.

    The first 40 years is nothing but building. Up to spearmaker valour 1 and armourer armour 3. We need these Royal Spearman.

    740 AD.
    This is where we are at the moment:
    - Alliance with everybody including Moors.
    - Spies in every province for stability.
    - Equal force (in units, not numbers) facing up against Moors in Castille (the Moors will not attack with equal force and probably first attack weaker Aragon).
    - Possesion of Leon, Castille and Navarra.
    - Profits about 1000 Florins a year.
    - Ready to recruit first Royal Spearman, with armour 3 (soon) and valour 1 (with 7/8 of these dudes I will be defensivly almost unbeatable).
    - 3 star general (king).


    On bottem of picture you see buildup of a Moor stack and my stacks + recruiting bin.

    Plans for the future:
    - Get 8 Royal Spearman.
    - Make everything armour 3.
    - Upgrade to valour 2.
    - Built superior navy around the peninsula.
    - Built army to take Portugal.
    - Do not make war with anybody else.
    - Look for princesses to marry to my king's sons (then they will already have children once they become king).


    There is some exellent beauty out there. But beware of the ones with an attitude. And the dads !!!!!.

    Btw. Axalon you better change your basic topics (the 4 towers + keep of Redux Castle) into "stickies", otherwise they might move down, or disappear. Hehe.
    Last edited by Axalon; 01-10-2009 at 02:57. Reason: changed title - Axalon

  2. #2

    Default Re: Conquest for Spain.

    COOL!

    Do you mind if I set up a copy of “the Spanish dicta” here? It might be interesting for the various people who might want to read all about the eternal glory of Spain (and it gives you something to argue with, since you probably will do otherwise). Or do you prefer it to be strictly “William” around here?


    - Cheers
    -----------
    Perhaps you should check your spelling a bit or at least edit in, “Conqueror” for instance. Nobody is perfect here, but I thought that this particular word might be more important than others here…

    In regards to the other towers, it isn’t necessary for the moment but let’s hope that it will be in the future.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Conquest for Spain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    COOL!

    Do you mind if I set up a copy of “the Spanish dicta” here? It might be interesting for the various people who might want to read all about the eternal glory of Spain (and it gives you something to argue with, since you probably will do otherwise). Or do you prefer it to be strictly “William” around here?


    - Cheers
    -----------
    Perhaps you should check your spelling a bit or at least edit in, “Conqueror” for instance. Nobody is perfect here, but I thought that this particular word might be more important than others here…

    In regards to the other towers, it isn’t necessary for the moment but let’s hope that it will be in the future.
    Thanks for already saving my face with the Qonqueror, before anyone else reads the Conquest (I thought it looked funny). That would have wasted most of my glory points and dignity.

    You can do whatever you want with this topic. Maybe it will set off some other Conquests. And other players might learn from it. Or I will learn from suggestions.

    Whatever adds entertainment within the borders of decency .

    Last edited by William the Silent; 11-07-2008 at 02:28.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Conquest for Spain.

    Ok, for the greater glory of redux and Spain here is a copy of the…

    THE SPANISH DICTA” 1A:
    -----------------------------
    • First of all, go for quality, it’s probably the only thing that are going to save Spain because you will not beat the Moors in an arms race, thus the only alternative left is quality. So, go for quality.
    • Secondly, the fate of Spain lies in Cordoba, if anywhere. This is the key to the entire region! Who ever controls Cordoba have the possibility to dominate and threaten the entire peninsula. It is here all important battles should be fought.
    • Thirdly, you need florins and time to build up Spain to full capacity; it is this that should be your primary task. Secure that time and wealth.
    • Be well aware of the capacities and composition of enemy armies, and make sure that whatever army you have that might have to face these armies is ready for it. As in have the right allocated tactical resources (troops & arms) to that army and thus it can actually and successfully counter the threat in question.
    • Be sure of what you build and the reasons as for why you are building it. Plan ahead when you build stuff, you don’t have the margins of mistakes in the start… Both in troops and in buildings. You must plan ahead! What do I need in 5 turns?
    • Always try to anticipate major enemy troop-movements (armies) near your borders and deploy your troops accordingly.
    • Always try to minimize your borders and maximize the enemy borders, if possible. Thus forcing the enemy to disperse his forces into several provinces, while you have to defend only one province (or something like that).
    • If possible operate with buffer-zones, that way you can afford to loose a battle a still come back and fight another day…
    • Once you have enough secured you borders enough, consider to build a navy (when you have enough florins for such expenses) to disrupt enemy logistical lines.
    • Never be afraid to fight, even if the odds seem grim…


    This “dicta” was taken from the regular thread (post: 230) and presents some general guidelines to consider for all players who want to try their luck with managing Spanish crown. Spain set on "Expert" seems to have become somewhat notorious for many players, so this dicta was born in a response to all that...


    Take it away William!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Conquest for Spain.

    Conquest for Spain part II.

    755 AD.
    We have landed in this noble year. We can look back on 55 years of building on the economy and military .
    We are able to recruit Royal Spearman and have reached valour level 2 and armour level 3 and I have 5 star general.
    Yearly profits are about 1100 Florins.

    I was actually looking for the takeover of Portugal, but the rich Moors beat me in that .

    After eliminating the Portugese the Moors had to deal with rebellion. That weakened their heavy stacks .

    770 AD.
    So I gave up my plans for Portugal and started building a strong navy (fleets of 4/5 warships) around the peninsula of Spain. I noticed that the Moors started moving their heavy spear unit somewhere else.

    You see the progress of the navy in the next three pictures up to 781 AD. And you see the weakening of the Moor stacks on the bottem .

    781 AD.
    In this year I had built up a strong enough army to withstand any attack from the Moors. I deployed 4 skirmish units to use as screen against the Moors in battle, since they had no cavalry (first).

    In the pictures you see what's in my stacks.

    782 AD.
    It has been 82 years of peace and building now . It's time now to get the Moors out of the spanish peninsula .

    My plan is to destroy the fleet of the Moors around the peninsula, at the moment that they have moved a lot of units away there. They will not be able to reinforce there then and hopefully it wil cause rebellion. I will invade Cordoba then from Castille. I expect Aragon and France not to attack me, since they are allies and will cancel alliances with Moors not me.

    Next episode the battle of Cardoba.
    Last edited by William the Silent; 11-08-2008 at 11:37.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Conquest for Spain.

    interesting.

    i was just messin around tho and was able to beat the moors way out of the peninsula+, as well as the Portuguese, and aragonese within 20 turns or so.
    as long as you do nothing too stupid people shouldnt lose to the moors.
    Last edited by cambovenzi; 11-08-2008 at 11:56.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Conquest for Spain.

    Quote Originally Posted by cambovenzi View Post
    interesting.

    i was just messin around tho and was able to beat the moors way out of the peninsula+, as well as the Portuguese, and aragonese within 20 turns or so.
    as long as you do nothing too stupid people shouldnt lose to the moors.
    I've never tried to play it fast with Spain on Expert like you. My guess is that you will not last very long, but maybe it is possible. It is not my style, so I never tried.

    You cannot built many units in 20 turns and you need them to prevent rebellions from happening in taken terratory. Also if you built army your income will lack. I don't know how you do it. Maybe I'm wrong.

    Make a little report of your progress with pictures (F2).

    Maybe Axalon has experience with your style and what happens .
    Last edited by William the Silent; 11-08-2008 at 22:03.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Conquest for Spain.

    Quote Originally Posted by William the Silent View Post
    I've never tried to play it fast with Spain on Expert like you. My guess is that you will not last very long, but maybe it is possible. It is not my style, so I never tried.

    You cannot built many units in 20 turns and you need them to prevent rebellions from happening in taken terratory. Also if you built army your income will lack. I don't know how you do it. Maybe I'm wrong.

    Make a little report of your progress with pictures (F2).

    Maybe Axalon has experience with your style and what happens .
    i just built a fort or two in other provinces.
    really the standing cost of units is nothing compared to vanilla MTW, so spamming out peasants, and higher quality troops from castille isnt that hard to do. obviously its not a straight blitz, b/c you need lots of troops, but its much, much more aggressive then your strategy, and what axalon's little guide thing says.
    also once you take a few provinces you build up income, and its even easier to build 3-4 troops a turn.
    i will probably restart and try a little bit harder, and come back with more detailed results/explanation.

    not trying to belittle your strategy, im sure building things up works great.
    i just wanted to try out and show that its not the only thing you can do and still be effective, or dominant.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Conquest for Spain.

    Quote Originally Posted by cambovenzi View Post
    i just built a fort or two in other provinces.
    really the standing cost of units is nothing compared to vanilla MTW, so spamming out peasants, and higher quality troops from castille isnt that hard to do. obviously its not a straight blitz, b/c you need lots of troops, but its much, much more aggressive then your strategy, and what axalon's little guide thing says.
    also once you take a few provinces you build up income, and its even easier to build 3-4 troops a turn.
    i will probably restart and try a little bit harder, and come back with more detailed results/explanation.

    not trying to belittle your strategy, im sure building things up works great.
    i just wanted to try out and show that its not the only thing you can do and still be effective, or dominant.
    If your strategy works: Do it!

    You have to play the game you like it. Not my way neccesary.
    I'm kind of (waaay) slow the way I do it, but it'll help me later. Some people will hate micro management .

    I made my conquest story to challenge myself and to see how hard it is on EXPERT and too make it visible.

    If you have a weak province you will be attacked. That's what these stinkin' Aragonese did to me when I was taking Cordoba. It fired back at them, because they got rebellion, because the moved too many troops in the attack . That story will come later.

    Have fun!
    Last edited by William the Silent; 11-08-2008 at 23:26.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Conquest for Spain.

    Quote Originally Posted by William the Silent View Post
    If your strategy works: Do it!

    You have to play the game you like it. Not my way neccesary.
    I'm kind of (waaay) slow the way I do it, but it'll help me later. Some people will hate micro management .

    I made my conquest story to challenge myself and to see how hard it is on EXPERT and too make it visible.

    If you have a weak province you will be attacked. That's what these stinkin' Aragonese did to me when I was taking Cordoba. It fired back at them, because they got rebellion, because the moved too many troops in the attack . That story will come later.

    Have fun!
    thanks,
    i gave it a shot.
    made my own thread, as i didn't want to get yours all messy with my stuff.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Conquest for Spain.

    So far so good... What happened next???

  12. #12

    Default Re: Conquest for Spain.

    Where were we? Oh yeh, Moors out of Peninsula.
    782 AD.
    (1) I order my fleets to destroy all Moor fleets.
    (2) Next turn I invade Cordoba. Moors just had moved out some troops somewhere else so that helped.
    (3) Moors flee to Portugal and I have 1 year siege in Cordoba.


    787 AD.
    (1) I have taken Cordoba and start building more units to take Granada and Portugal. But I had concentreted all my units in Cordoba so Aragon invaded Castille. I moved a stack of me in there and they retreated.
    (2) Because of that attack the Aragonese get rebellion in Valencia. And I loose lots of my allies.
    (3) In 791 Aragonese offer peace and I take that.


    794 AD.
    Because of the threat I devide my stacks over Cordoba and Castille. That leads to an attack from the Moors out of Portugal. Finally a battle.


    (1) I find myself in front of a farm and decide to move back up the hill to give the enemy a long tireing walk.
    (2) I line my spearman up in the front (strongest in the middle). Behind that feudal archers (long range). Then line of sword units. Behind that the cavalry.
    (3) Enemy approaching from my view.
    (4,5) Enemy approaches with sword and spear in front and militia in the second line.


    (1) I let my archers concentrate on the enemy general.
    (2) His unit gets smaller and smaller.
    (3) Until he becomes casualty himself.


    (1) Now the enemy is tired and demoralised. So it's time to attack.
    (2) First with my left flank to make room for my cavalry.
    (3) Then with my right flank.
    (4) The cavalry starts moving in the flank/back of the enemy. The enemy wavers.
    (5) Cavalry attacks the now retreating enemy.


    (1) Now the enemy is in full retreat. The slaughter fest can begin.
    (2) All the infantry is ordered to chase'm down.
    (3) With my cavalry I try to pin good units from the enemy so my infantry can destroy them.
    (4) The casualty sheet. You learn what each unit can kill. The archers can kill: 162 (remember that).
    (5) My new position on the campaign map.


    794 AD AD.
    Plans for the future:
    - destroy rest of the Moors in Spain
    - eliminate the Aragonese
    - take rich Marokko
    - built, built, built and take, take, take.

    But first I'll have to find time to play again.
    Last edited by William the Silent; 11-11-2008 at 20:22.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Conquest for Spain.

    I'm at the last part of my campaign. Taking Portugal and then Granada. Defeating the Aragonese will not be a problem after that. Since the mod is going to be "fixed" I think it is not usefull to continue after this part.

    795 AD.
    (1) Time to invade Portugal.
    (2) The opposing forces. Should be easy.


    (1) Approaching the enemy: spear in front, archers in second, sword in third and cavalry in rear.
    (2) The archers start showering the enemy while the rest keeps moving forward.
    (3) Left flank attacks.
    (4) Support from cavalry there.
    (5) Right flank lines up against extended enemy.


    (1) Enemy general joins the battle with his camel unit, while the first Moors rout.
    (2) Moors try to outflank my right flank, but my spanish swordman take them in the flank.
    (3) Enemy general is killed while my cavalry starts to outflank the left flank of the Moors.
    (4) They take the enemy in the back.
    (5) Moors flee and the cavalry drives them off the field.


    (1) There is only one stubbern unit of Moors left. My general gives the final blow.
    (2) The casualty chart. Archers kill 198.
    (3) What's left is a short siege.


    (1) Right after taking Portugal the French start a crusade for Granada.
    (2) This means I have to hurry to be there first.
    (3) I have to move my army out of Castille otherwise the crusade will take part of my army.
    (4) I end up being there first and the crusader army disappears.
    (5) Granada is mine so my backdoor is save.


    803 AD.
    The end of the Conquest for Spain. The Aragonese will be eliminated soon. Because of my navy all around the Peninsula I do not have to worry about invasions. I can concentrate all my armies north. Looks like the Saracens are going to be big trouble from the South.

    This is the way to take Spain, the slooow way.

    Soon I will rule the World.

    The End.

    By williamthesilent at 2008-08-11
    Last edited by William the Silent; 11-13-2008 at 11:19.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Archived campaign: Spain (defensive)

    Hi all redux players,

    Due to the fact that this entire thread is based on circumstances that is no longer valid or representative for redux I have decided to close it down since it ended up being something that is now borderlining to “disinformation” and that is certainly not the way we should have it around here. Even if the problems with the information in this thread is not the same as its sisterthread (the archived campaign: Spain (aggressive)-thread), it still has other problems and inaccuracys in it. The problems with an over-representation of skirmishers in various armies and a weak overall naval-power in that game configuration (unfixed redux V.1.0b or any earlier version) which creates a distorted picture of the circumstances in the game that is not good for reference here. Thus I have decided to close it down and send it to the archieves were it belongs.

    Now, my thanks to William the Silent for initially starting the thread and to all the people who contributed to it and for all the lessons and insights learned from it. The flawed circumstances have now been countered with the “Spanish fix” which is available in the download area (the main problems are hardcoded but what can be done about it has been done in that fix). The Spanish fix will of course also be included in the 3rd edition of MTW-redux when it is released.

    If I understand everything correctly it seems that Generalissimo William will at some point start a new thread with another Spanish campaign, thus proving himself worthy of his golden spurs once again, but this time based on accurate and valid circumstances and I for one is looking forward to it – when it happens (this is Williams call, so I dont know when that might be). If there are any problems with me closing down this thread, just send me a PM and we will work it out from there....

    - Axalon


    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Thread is hereby closed.



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