America, 1700-1800?

[ULC]

It's been kind of bugging me, but how will CA interpret the 13 colonies? Something that caught my attention to a possibility is that there will be "protectorates". Is it possible CA plans on having the colonies available at the start, but ridiculously weak and underdeveloped as a protectorate of the British?

Also, the rather disciplined formations of the Native Americans we have seen so far makes me wonder if CA won't have whole Native American nations represented as well, possibly playable. I of course hope to all ends that I will not be lining up my Indians in ordered formations to stomp on the French/Spanish/British/Dutch with supporting artillery and cavalry...really dispel the atmosphere, that would...

[Martok]

It's been kind of bugging me, but how will CA interpret the 13 colonies? Something that caught my attention to a possibility is that there will be "protectorates". Is it possible CA plans on having the colonies available at the start, but ridiculously weak and underdeveloped as a protectorate of the British?

Going by the screenshots and various tidbits dropped by CA, this is what's been cobbled together so far:

1.) The 13 Colonies starts out as part of Britain. Whether or not they'll be a protectorate or otherwise receive special status is unknown.
2.) Given the right combination of circumstances, the Colonies can rebel against Britain and thus emerge as its own faction (the U.S.).
3.) Should the Colonies rebel, it probably won't be until the second half of the game.
4.) If the U.S. does emerge, the player will then be given the choice to switch over to playing as the Americans, or to continue playing as the British.
5.) It's unclear whether the the Colonies can still rebel and form America if they're owned by a faction other than Britain. It's been hinted once or twice that yes it's possible, but it has yet to be officially confirmed.

Also, the rather disciplined formations of the Native Americans we have seen so far makes me wonder if CA won't have whole Native American nations represented as well, possibly playable. I of course hope to all ends that I will not be lining up my Indians in ordered formations to stomp on the French/Spanish/British/Dutch with supporting artillery and cavalry...really dispel the atmosphere, that would...

Although I highly doubt they'll be playable without modding, it does look like that at least a couple Native American tribes will make an appearance as their own faction (although CA has yet to verify this for certain). If you look at screenshots showing the campaign map, you can see on the mini-map that several regions in North America are in colors that don't appear to correspond with those of any of the European factions. While of course that's not incontrovertible proof that at least a couple American Indian nations will be their own factions, it's definitely not out of the question either.

[Mailman653]

Playable tribes with modding.....sounds pretty cool.

Imagine having a whole Sioux or Mohawk country.

[Pantsalot]

Apparently America's first navy was just a mass of hired pirates, kinda wonder
if that will be an option avaible in the game..?

& there will ofc be the Native American tribes, though I wouldn't care the slightest
to be able to play them, plus there would have to be a lot of modding involved to
make the Native American tribes playable, as they may have to create new buildings
to construct & work out about ships since they can't exactly get to Europe on their
crappy boats.

[Megas Methuselah]

... their crappy boats.

Don't call my canoe a crappy boat!

Anyways, yeah, they'll need a bit of modding to make them playable. My God, I hope someone is up for the task. I CAN'T WAIT TO COLONIZE EUROPE!!!!

[Polemists]

lol.

I'm sure someone will unlock all of them, right about the time someone does a Warhammer, and Rome mod for it as well lol.


That said, I hope the natives fight like natives. Obviously in melee combat, but if they rushed in a formation that would just be sad.

Plus i'm hoping like history I can wipe out about 80% of them with new diseases, much like the campaign in Kingdoms where the natives outnumber spain but in the end there are not many left.

I just hope the Natives will be bribeable factions as I'd like to play out my own little Indian v Indian wars or proxy

[KingKnudthebloodthirsty]

THe Americas should be like a vassal sort to Britain. It is allied and must pay the required tribute for every turn it is vassal to Britain. THe colonies are different from Britain in terms of military and uniforms. COlonists had their own local militias and Britain had its own men. THink of it this way: George Washington fought for Britain in the French and Indian war, but u never see a picture as a redcoat. He led the Virgininan troops.

[Megas Methuselah]

THe Americas should be like a vassal sort to Britain.

Americas? So, you're saying Spain's colonies in South America was a "vassal" to Britain?

It is allied and must pay the required tribute for every turn it is vassal to Britain.

Assuming you meant the Thirteen Colonies, they weren't "vassals." They were colonies, and thus a part of the British Empire.


EDIT: A couple days later. Uh, sorry about this, I was really grumpy at the time. Take this post with a laugh.

[Fisherking]

I was just thinking of something I have seen in some of the old, ancient, and even board games when it came to movement in early North America.

Often you had to stick to river courses or it slowed your movement drastically. Boat was the most efficient and quickest means of transport.

Men who tried to make it on foot often starved to death. Look at what happened with the American attack on Canada.

When George Rogers Clark marched his men from Kaskaskia to Vincennes he sent a boat around carrying the cannons. It arrived within a day of his arrival, or maybe sooner, even though it was mostly up stream and in a huge flood.

I know we will have to wait to see but I was wondering if water movement would be an option in the vastness of North America and what other movement restrictions it would have.

[Yoyoma1910]

Don't forget New France was gigantic, though far less manned.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Polemists]

I really hope you can just buy new france, like Thomas Jefferson did. Sure it'd be pre napolean, but if you have the cash why not beat the americans to it :)

[wumpus]

It's been kind of bugging me, but how will CA interpret the 13 colonies? ...

Consider this, if I may make a suggestion:
Medieval2:TW had Kingdoms and Medieva[1]:TW had Viking Invasion in both of which there were factions (tribes? etc.) that were not in the main games. If we have patience enough to wait, CA could publish [if they are of a mind to] an expansion (like Kingdoms and VI) about each of the 13 colonies as a separate faction (it should be fun to reenact their petty political jealousies & squabbles and moments of unified cooperation) but allied with each other, of course (as the Eastern & Western empires in Rome:TW's Barbarian Invasion), then throw in the Iroquiois and other sundry native tribes, to make things more interesting, plus of course the English, French, Spaniards, and maybe some Hessians or whatever. But--I don't know--since neither you nor I are CA, ours is but to speculate and, maybe, suggest. The decision lies with them. Just a thought, though; what say you?
Hawooh.

[gamerdude873]

Sorry i've been away so long. Internet trouble.


This is my fault for not being specific enough, my bad. What i meant for head to head was with both sides attacking, with neither side having prepared earthworks. Monmoth COurthouse was after Baron von Steuben whipped the colonial line into shape in valley forge. Before that, the colonial line was a disgrace: read about the battle of long Island and new york: huge sections of the rebel line melted away when the the british charged with bayonets (Another thing that the colonials sorely lacked: bayonets, at least beofre the french began to supply them). However, when the americans had earthworks prepared, the Brits could have real trouble disloging them.

The Battle of Saratoga in 1777

In many ways it was the most pivotal battle of the American Revolution.

The Americans did outnumber the British forces by roughly 3 to 1 but Gates sat out most of the battle with most of the troops and only Arnold and Morgan went into the attack. Gates sat in his trenches and watched.

It was not just a military victory but a great political one. It brought Spain and France into the war against Briton.

I haven't looked into the specifics of how this battle was fought, so i disregaurded it as a hit and run battle where the americans knew and used the terrain to their advantage, and brits were weighed down by a hefty baggage train. Either way, it was very key to the success of the revolution.

[Fisherking]

It may not be what you are looking for but have a look at the Battle of Stony Point. An American force stormed and took a British Fort in a three pronged Night Attack.

They drew off part of the garrison with a diversionary attack and stormed the walls. No mean feat! Even if Washington decided they couldn’t hold it long and evacuated.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I guess I'm less disagreeing with you on facts and more on what you conclude from them, gamerdude. We both agree that American forces fought with mixed results varying on a number of factors from training to equipment to tactics. I would say that this is true of most European powers of the time - or at least, most European nations faced these ups and downs on the battlefield. I certainly think that the US shouldn't be able to invade Europe in ETW, but I wouldn't rule out becoming a major local player.

Also, good to have you back, I'm enjoying this discussion.