Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
Jesus and God are not exactly the same being, because Jesus has a human element as well. In any case many answers present themselves to you question:

In any case, your arguement about the gangster bribing the jury is horribly flawed and is an example of gross injustice, so in your own example the Poor Man suffers injustice. You need a much better example.
I know it couldn't be a perfect example - because the gangster went unpunished, his sins were never payed for. The point in it was to focus on the poor murderer - did he suffer injustice? The example was not a broad comparison with salvation, the point was purely that the poor man did not suffer injustice.

The difference between this court case and salvation is that in the court case the judge is just a man. When it comes to salvation, God is the judge. The elect can't wriggle out of a sentence like the gangster (which is why I didn't intend for too much to be read into that side of the example). God judges us just like He judges everyone else, and the penalty for all would be the same. It is by mercy that any are saved, because Jesus suffered for the sins of the elect. Therfore, their sins were paid for just as those of anyone else.

If we somehow came to God by our own merits, how then could we possibly realise the fundamental Chrisitan beliefs, that are to humble ourselves before God and recognise our total iniquity in his sight, and the aboslute, total glory of his sacrifice on the cross in bringing us to salvation?

Plus there are other issues if you do not believe the doctrine of predestination. If you do not believe that the fates of people are sealed, then how do you account for chance? Some kid in the pre-colonial Amazon rainforest will not have the same chance of salvation as a child raised by Christian parents in a Christian country.

More broadly speaking, without going into the clearest inequalities, completely random chance would determine salvation if it was not for God's plan. That would mean that if people came to God, it would either be through the infuence of their upbringing, or perhaps some sort of inner righteousness. How then could they humble themselves before God as Christians are supposed to do?

If we are truly to open our hearts to God and beg him to reform us, then the only way this could be done is by realising we are absolutedly no better than any other human that has ever existed (apart from the human aspect of Jesus).

No other way would work, salvation has go to be perfect.