Merry WinterLight-Festival! No Limits on PC madness?

[Andres]

WinterLight festival...

There will be something missing from Oxford's Christmas lights display this year - any mention of Christmas.

(...)

Organisers say the new two-month WinterLight festival will include events marking the Hindu Diwali and Jewish Hannukah festivals as well as Christmas. It also coincides with the start of International Year of Astronomy 2009.

(...)

Sabir Hussain Mirza, chairman of the Muslim Council of Oxford, said: 'I'm really upset. Christians, Muslims and other religions all look forward to Christmas.'

Rabbi Eli Bracknell of the Jewish Educational Centre said: ' Anything that waters down traditional culture and Christianity is not positive for the British identity. WinterLight includes all festivals but it also conceals them.'

Reverend James Grote, of the John Bunyan Baptist Church, said: 'People are not offended by hearing each other's faiths.'

But Ed Turner, deputy leader of Oxford council, said: 'We are not Christmas killers. There's no desire to downgrade its importance or prominence - there's still going to be a Christmas tree.'

My opinion?

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This is getting absurd. Beyond comprehension. Really.

[gaelic cowboy]

In all fairness they still have a tree and they still will have some themes based on christmas there just adding in a couple a more and changing the name from christmas lights to winterlights. I thinks it's a good idea christmas starts earlier every bloody year. To be honest it probably a case of looking for offence where none was taken.

[Fragony]

Ah, news from England

Sweden, common you can do it

[Hooahguy]

what? thats.... disgraceful!
christmas has its place in british society as a christian holiday. keep it that way!
its horrible for this to happen! PC is ruining the best of our cultures!

[Andres]

what? thats.... disgraceful!
christmas has its place in british society as a christian holiday. keep it that way!
its horrible for this to happen! PC is ruining the best of our cultures!

You're kidding, right?

It's not that it's that dramatic, I just think it's absurd.

Like I said: beyond comprehension. Of course, it's not the end of the world, but I really cannot see the necessity of not mentioning Christimas and re-naming the whole event into "WinterLight Festival".

Please, can someone explain this to me? Why "WinterLight Festival" instead of "Christmas"?

[Hooahguy]

kidding in the sense that its a really horrible thing, yes, but not in the fact that PC has gone waaaaay overboard.

[Louis VI the Fat]

You're kidding, right?

It's not that it's that dramatic, I just think it's absurd.

Like I said: beyond comprehension. Of course, it's not the end of the world, but I really cannot see the necessity of not mentioning Christimas and re-naming the whole event into "WinterLight Festival".

Please, can someone explain this to me? Why "WinterLight Festival" instead of "Christmas"?

Why should 'Winterlight Festival' be named 'Christmas'?

I say let the Christians celebrate Christmas in their Palestine homeland instead of imposing their immigrant values on us Celts and Germanics.

[Fragony]

Please, can someone explain this to me? Why "WinterLight Festival" instead of "Christmas"?

Dear god I have been trying to explain it since forever.

[LittleGrizzly]

Why should 'Winterlight Festival' be named 'Christmas'?

I say let the Christians celebrate Christmas in their Palestine homeland instead of imposing their immigrant values on us Celts and Germanics.

too true, wasn't christmas some pagan holiday first anyway, which got replaced with the christian one ?

Oxford is just looking ahead to the atheist future and renaming the holiday to suit....

Not that i really care either way to be honest, it doesn't make a bloody bit of difference what some town council calls it, why not just call it xmas though ?

Infact why the need to call it anything ? it is obvious the lights are being put up for the christmas period...

[Andres]

Why should 'Winterlight Festival' be named 'Christmas'?

I say let the Christians celebrate Christmas in their Palestine homeland instead of imposing their immigrant values on us Celts and Germanics.

Why should 'Winterlight Festival' be named 'Christmas'?

I say let the Christians celebrate Christmas in their Palestine homeland instead of imposing their immigrant values on us Celts and Germanics.

too true, wasn't christmas some pagan holiday first anyway, which got replaced with the christian one ?

Oxford is just looking ahead to the atheist future and renaming the holiday to suit....

Not that i really care either way to be honest, it doesn't make a bloody bit of difference what some town council calls it, why not just call it xmas though ?

Infact why the need to call it anything ? it is obvious the lights are being put up for the christmas period...

No Christmas WinterLight-festival presents for you guys

If it doesn't matter how the event is called, then why bothering to rename it into "WinterLight-festival"?

[Ronin]

too true, wasn't christmas some pagan holiday first anyway, which got replaced with the christian one ?

last I checked Christmas was all about shopping...so I think it has come full circle a long time ago

[Banquo's Ghost]

The Outrage Over Winterval-PCness just gets earlier every year.

[naut]

I mean I can understand not saying Merry Christmas to a Muslim or a Jew or Hindu and saying, Season's Greetings instead. Yet, this seems a little ridiculous. By "protecting" everyone from the traditions of the majority, traditions which may contain religious connotations, they don't actually protect at all. All they do is patronise, and create inequality. PC has it's uses, this is not one of them. Creating rules does not address problems, it entrenches them.

[LittleGrizzly]

The Outrage Over Winterval-PCness just gets earlier every year.



now that you mention it, its like christmas adverts, by the time im an old man they will start in january...

last I checked Christmas was all about shopping...

How about merry capitalism instead then, only the communists will be offended, thats never too much of a problem anyway...
If it doesn't matter how the event is called, then why bothering to rename it into "WinterLight-festival"?

why give it a name at all ? just put the lights up and people can call groundhog day light-festival for all i care, unless theres a nessecary reason to name the lights or the general period...

[Andres]

why give it a name at all ? just put the lights up and people can call groundhog day light-festival for all i care, unless theres a nessecary reason to name the lights or the general period...

Ok, so in fact, it doesn't matter how the event is called.

It has always been called "Christmas", but nobody really cares about the name anyway?

Then why did Mister Ed Turner, deputy leader of Oxford, bother to put energy in this exercise of futility?

If politicians occupy themselves with such nonsense, I propose that we calculate the cost of making and executing this decision and take that amount of his next paycheque(s), just to make clear that you don't get elected into an office to spend your time with complete and utter nonsense.

Because, frankly, I don't care either how the event is called, but what gets on my nerves is the absurdity that politicians waste time on such matters.

Don't they have anything better to do?

Hence my outcry, my scream for someone able to explain to me why such decisions are being made.

That's all.

Or is it too much to ask a politician to show some "common sense"?

Am I the one being absurd here, you know, by asking that deputy leaders should occupy themselves with useful things?

[Rhyfelwyr]

Christmas is a Popish festival and needs to be banned anyway.

[Hooahguy]

Ok, so in fact, it doesn't matter how the event is called.

It has always been called "Christmas", but nobody really cares about the name anyway?

Then why did Mister Ed Turner, deputy leader of Oxford, bother to put energy in this exercise of futility?

If politicians occupy themselves with such nonsense, I propose that we calculate the cost of making and executing this decision and take that amount of his next paycheque(s), just to make clear that you don't get elected into an office to spend your time with complete and utter nonsense.

Because, frankly, I don't care either how the event is called, but what gets on my nerves is the absurdity that politicians waste time on such matters.

Don't they have anything better to do?

Hence my outcry, my scream for someone able to explain to me why such decisions are being made.

That's all.

Or is it too much to ask a politician to show some "common sense"?

Am I the one being absurd here, you know, by asking that deputy leaders should occupy themselves with useful things?

if it wasnt for these politicians we'd have nothing to laugh at them for.

[HoreTore]

Sweden, common you can do it

Not likely, the swedish word for christmas isn't related to christianity or any religion at all

We're still pagans you know.

[atheotes]

Ok, so in fact, it doesn't matter how the event is called.

It has always been called "Christmas", but nobody really cares about the name anyway?

Then why did Mister Ed Turner, deputy leader of Oxford, bother to put energy in this exercise of futility?

If politicians occupy themselves with such nonsense, I propose that we calculate the cost of making and executing this decision and take that amount of his next paycheque(s), just to make clear that you don't get elected into an office to spend your time with complete and utter nonsense.

Because, frankly, I don't care either how the event is called, but what gets on my nerves is the absurdity that politicians waste time on such matters.

Don't they have anything better to do?

Hence my outcry, my scream for someone able to explain to me why such decisions are being made.

That's all.

Or is it too much to ask a politician to show some "common sense"?

Am I the one being absurd here, you know, by asking that deputy leaders should occupy themselves with useful things?

Agree with you.... an exercise in wasting time and money


OT: What is the consensus on the reasons for christmas anyway? why is it celebrated the day it is? pardon my ignorance... i am not christian and have a heard differing reasons...

[HoreTore]

OT: What is the consensus on the reasons for christmas anyway? why is it celebrated the day it is? pardon my ignorance... i am not christian and have a heard differing reasons...

It's so people can spend all their money before the end of the year.

[LittleGrizzly]

Basically christmas celebrates the birth of christ, or that is what its evolved into over the years...

Andres in that case i can agree with you, there is absolutley no point rebranding the holiday, a waste of time and money, though there is maybe a case to be made against religious spending by councils (outright christian symbols rather than tree and pretty lights...)

[Strike For The South]

Im glad I live in West Texas.

[Slyspy]

"Organisers say the new two-month WinterLight festival will include events marking the Hindu Diwali and Jewish Hannukah festivals as well as Christmas"

Just to play advocate. If this festival is a creation of the civic council then surely it should include something of value for everyone (except, it seems, Muslims) living within the city? Christmas has, I suspect, not been cancelled. Merely that in the council's civic events calender it has been incorporated into a larger more diverse time of celebration and of festival. The article is hardly big on details. I would also question the veracity of the source considering that the Mail frequently runs similar stories which turn out to be at best stretching the truth and at worst actual misinformation.

[atheotes]

It's so people can spend all their money before the end of the year.

thats harsh... i think so too but sometime i also realise that it is not all about the shopping....

Basically christmas celebrates the birth of christ, or that is what its evolved into over the years...

well...thats what i have been told... but there seem to be different opinions on the time of the year christ was supposed to have been born... i am more curious abt the date it is celebrated and how it came to pass...but i guess this way off topic...

Andres in that case i can agree with you, there is absolutley no point rebranding the holiday, a waste of time and money, though there is maybe a case to be made against religious spending by councils (outright christian symbols rather than tree and pretty lights...)

hmm... i cant deny that these festivals bring along some joy and a sense of happiness ... so i wouldnt stop all spending..may be just put a cap on it i guess....but we would soon have all religions clamoring for similar treatment...so i guess am just confused

[Lord Winter]

OT: What is the consensus on the reasons for christmas anyway? why is it celebrated the day it is? pardon my ignorance... i am not christian and have a heard differing reasons...

I've heard it's in december so it could compete with the pagan holidays around the shortest day of the year, way back.

[Husar]

Well, I cannot imagine celebrating christmas in the caribic or somewhere where the sun is shinging and yes, the lack of snow in recent years didn't quite help the atmosphere.

That said, celebrating something is uhm, well, celebrating means eating a lot and coming together doesn't it?

Now it is of course not surprising for me that they changed the name, it is England after all and sadly they have been acting pretty weird lately, in a political sense. Just my opinion of course but I do not see why I shouldn't celebrate Christamas with people from other religions if they want to and i wouldn't be offended if a muslim invited me to celebrate the ramadan with him or so, I might say no because of the fasting involved but I never complained about the city setting up ramadan tents on a big square either, I simply do not see the problem, why should anyone be offended?

I could just as well write a letter to Ed Turner and tell him that reading the name Ed Turner on the internet was very offensive to me and that I lost a lot of sleep since that shocking event and that I consider suing him.

[Incongruous]

Pathetic, and meanwhile all across England councils are giving their constituents the short end of the stick, just pathetic.

What needs to happen is for all councils to be lined up against a wall and egged to stink!

[Louis VI the Fat]

Well, I cannot imagine celebrating christmas in the caribic or somewhere where the sun is shinging and yes, the lack of snow in recent years didn't quite help the atmosphere.

Are you suggesting we stick Christmas where the sun doesn't shine?

[LittleGrizzly]

hmm... i cant deny that these festivals bring along some joy and a sense of happiness ... so i wouldnt stop all spending..may be just put a cap on it i guess....but we would soon have all religions clamoring for similar treatment...so i guess am just confused

Well im happy for the spending, though it does seem slightly unfair, if the council are simply saying these decorations are for the winterlight festival which celebrates (insert events and christmas) then thats just a nice way of celebrating christmas and including everyone.... if that is whats happening it seems like a fairly good idea..

Im not sure how much attention to pay to this story, i looked at the quotes rather than the link, didn't notice it was the daily mail, the most sensationalist little rag i ever read, probably took a misquoted comment and built thier little pc catastrophe around it

[Gregoshi]

Are you suggesting we stick Christmas where the sun doesn't shine?

Brilliant. But doing so would be a morass.