Its that time again! Whats your favourite [Hoplite] unit?

[Aemilius Paulus]

They're more hoplite than the Arabian archer-spearmen which were posted already.

Seriously, this is a hoplite thread, so Celitc_Punk is looking for spearmen who fight in usually a dense formation (unless they are Syrakousaian/Massalian/reformed hoplites), have round shields/thureos and again, usually holding the spear in an overhand manner (unless being reformed hoplites). Arjos are definitely not hoplites, just elite spearmen/swordsmen. The Sabean archer-spearmen were completely off-topic as well, much more so than Arjos. Whereas the posting of Arjos could have been accidental, the posting of the archer unit was complete defiance of the thread guidelines.

If someone wants to post their favorite no-hoplite unit, they can create another "favourite unit" thread.

[Anastasios Helios]

The Arjos could have been of an Alpine/Rhaetic influence which would have been of Etruscan influence, which would have evolved from some type of "hoplite" (like the Roman Triarii) so...sure it fits for this forum...arguably one could say that it has just been very "Keltisized" with the long sword, chain mail, and shield...voila

[Aemilius Paulus]

Meh, you're kind of stretching it there. There is a certain point in evolution where a certain object no longer bears enough resembles its origin to be classified in the same group. Arjos are just heavy barbarian spearmen or sworsmen who most certainly did not fight in a phalanx formation, which is what qualifies a unit to be called a hoplite. Maybe a shieldwall, but that is very different.

[Anastasios Helios]

Agreed...

[Foot]

barbarian isn't actually a valid classification on these forums. Arjos are a heavy celtic spearmen unit.

Foot

[Aemilius Paulus]

barbarian isn't actually a valid classification on these forums.
Foot

I wasn't using it as a classification. I am not one of those biased people who think Rome was everything and barbarians were savages, no matter what I sound like to you.

[Pontius Pilate]

barbarian isn't actually a valid classification on these forums. Arjos are a heavy celtic spearmen unit.

Foot

um, but isn't the mod called "Europe of the Barbarians"?

[Aemilius Paulus]

um, but isn't the mod called "Europe of the Barbarians"?

Good point.

[Foot]

um, but isn't the mod called "Europe of the Barbarians"?

The understanding being that everyone is a barbarian to someone, thus turning the absolutist sentiment of barbarianism into a relativistic meaning .

Foot

[Aemilius Paulus]

I'm sure he was saying that in a joking manner(or merely half-serious), Foot, as was I in the following post.

[Kromulan]

Favorite HOPLITE??

Hmm. . . which dolts with sticks do I like. . .

I guess Red Sea Hoplites, because they are the first decent line infantry other than nobles or FM Saba gets.

OR,
Spartan bodyguards, because they stand and fight me while the rest of the dolts with sticks run away too quickly.

[Ignopotens]

Seriously, this is a hoplite thread

Uhh, my bad on the archer-spearmen, but neither the title of the thread nor the first post indicate this to be a hoplite-only thread. Celtic Punk's post right before mine only seems to suggest he just thinks you're only going to post hoplites.

[Pontius Pilate]

Uhh, my bad on the archer-spearmen, but neither the title of the thread nor the first post indicate this to be a hoplite-only thread. Celtic Punk's post right before mine only seems to suggest he just thinks you're only going to post hoplites.

Read this Ignopotens, it's the first post:

Except this one has a twist. What is your favourite hoplite unit. early triarii count. they are pretty much hoplites in a different name. but dont hold a spear to the Classical hoplites.

Mine would have to be.... Massalian hoplites. Though I rely on my Spartans to get the job done, Massallians do it looking badass. That helmet looks so well done, you can see the grit on the Iron of the helm! Longswords+Hoplitesheild and spear + good ol' celtic bravery = badass.

[Celtic_Punk]

Thanks for trying to keep guys OT Paulus. Yes this a HOPLITE THREAD! you want to do your own thread, theres the door.

Red Sea Hoplites? I must say I've never encountered them before... Please throw a picture up of them... if they are indeed hoplites

[Foot]

Yes, he's aware of that. However the title of this thread is quite clear: "Its that time again! Whats your favourite unit?" No mention of hoplites or anything that would suggest that the Arjos is not a suitable suggestion. How about people start making threads with thought out titles instead of expecting people to instantly understand a thread through careful reading of each post.

Leave Ignopotens alone and start looking to your own follies.

Foot

[Celtic_Punk]

Foot, i dont expect people to instantly understand, but when you see a million pictures of hoplites and if you took the 30 seconds required to read the first post (which might I add you should be doing anyway)

[Foot]

Foot, i dont expect people to instantly understand, but when you see a million pictures of hoplites and if you took the 30 seconds required to read the first post (which might I add you should be doing anyway)

Yet it would have been the easiest of changes to make sure that people were aware immediately, instead you jump on the first person to make an innocent, and understandable, mistake. And I might add what you should be doing is making threads with clear and concise titles. Clean up your own house before criticising others.

Foot

[Celtic_Punk]

I didnt jump on anyone... AP was doing the jumping, I just came around to do the mopping up action...

Whats your favourite hoplite foot? you've posted quite a few times and havent contributed, I demand to know!!!!

[Aemilius Paulus]

All right guys, that's enough. Both Foot and Celtic_Punk are right. Celtic_Punk is right that one should read the first post of the thread befre hastily rushing to post a response of their own. Looking at other post should also be a must, although this thread is an exception. This thread is not so much a discussion as a place to post something you like. That does not require any conversations.

Howver, Foot is right that a thread title should ideally be less ambiguous and more down-to-the-point. The title was deceptive, I agree. When I first saw the title I though it was just another favourite unit thread, of which we had thousands. One should also refrain from harshly criticizing people, although I did not think that Celtic_Punk or I "jumped on" or "attacked" anyone. To post without reading the guidelines or any of the previous posts is simply spamming and/or rude disregard of netiquette.

Lets get back on topic now that the argument is settled (hopefully).

[Aemilius Paulus]

AP was doing the jumping

Oh well, whatever; I'll just take the blame. Playing the pointing game does not lead anywhere...

It was a legitimate notification on my behalf, as this thread was and is about hoplites. Nor was it rude and I did not specify anyone in particular. Keeping the thread clean and on-topic is not "jumping" on someone, and if it is, then Foot is the biggest "jumper" since he is a moderator after all, whose job is to ensure that threads do not deviate from certain guidelines. Not to mention that out of all of us, Foot has probably got the shortest temper. Or he just gets tired of seeing people bad-mouth over and over gain, day after day until he snaps. Nevertheless shortest temper is his trait after all.

EDIT: Anyway, to get this thread back on topic, I'll just post another one of my favorite hoplites (or so I think since they use the phalanx formation and use spears) I know it is also "stretching it" but the EB description does say it uses the Greek phalanx and hope this is enough :


Hoplitai (Greek Classical Hoplites) are my second favorite (after Triarii) because they are available in so many places. However, in the Northern Europe, in places like Gaul, Britain and Germania, the closest place where I can find a hoplite unit is in Helvetia, and the unit is Mori Gaesum.

[The Persian Cataphract]

I'll give the Persianate heavy shield-bearers their plight:




Paired with hard-hitting cavalry, these guys, when properly deployed serve not only as solid line-infantry but also as bait. I shouldn't even mention it, but they look totally sweet too.

Someone please give me a lip about these not being "hoplites". I'm begging for it. Literally.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Someone please give me a lip about these not being "hoplites". I'm begging for it. Literally.

They are clearly hoplites. One would have to be rather ignorant to flame you about that. Plus, my Mori Gaesum was much more controversial than your hoplites. Especially since the top three were clearly hoplites. They were specifically copied from the Greek hoplites. Now the bottom three are definitely more arguable, although their EB description does say that they were influenced by hoplites.

[Foot]

It was a legitimate notification on my behalf, as this thread was and is about hoplites. Nor was it rude and I did not specify anyone in particular. Keeping the thread clean and on-topic is not "jumping" on someone, and if it is, then Foot is the biggest "jumper" since he is a moderator after all, whose job is to ensure that threads do not deviate from certain guidelines. Not to mention that out of all of us, Foot has probably got the shortest temper. Or he just gets tired of seeing people bad-mouth over and over gain, day after day until he snaps. Nevertheless shortest temper is his trait after all.

You are right, I really shouldn't get involved in the forums.

See you guys later.

Foot

[The Persian Cataphract]

They are clearly hoplites. One would have to be rather ignorant to flame you about that. Plus, my Mori Gaesum was much more controversial than your hoplites. Especially since the top three were clearly hoplites. They were specifically copied from the Greek hoplites. Now the bottom three are definitely more arguable, although their EB description does say that they were influenced by hoplites.

Actually, none of them are technically hoplites; tactically they were never used like Grecian heavy-infantry, in particular as far as the formation is concerned. Instead, these were all hoplite-influenced variations of the previous Near Eastern shield-bearer tradition, using a similar panoply to Greek mercenary hoplites. None of these soldiers wield the doru-spear. They were furthermore tactically deployed in the decimal organization and would likely still feature the Achaemenid-style leadership designated per company of one of ten men, and from there a battalion of one of ten of a hundred men and so forth.

What they do have in common is the resemblance of panoply, and how they were deployed in tight-knit formations locking shields; not necessarily because of emulating hoplite tactics but because there is an even older tradition of Assyrian heavy infantry locking their shields and that even wicker-pavise bearing archer-contingents did the same. They are very similar to the Classical Grecian hoplites, but still yet in a different way from the Graeco-Macedonian Hypaspists, who too were armoured infantry but were tactically deployed very differently during the Alexandrian era. How do we define the hoplite for starters? Do we just look at their shields and say "Hey, that looks nice, big and round, he's a hoplite!". No, there is more to the nomenclature, but for convenience we call them "hoplites" due to the resemblances of their arms as represented through the RTW-engine. In real life, the subtle differences might have been enough to distinguish between the types.

[Aemilius Paulus]

How do we define the hoplite for starters? Do we just look at their shields and say "Hey, that looks nice, big and round, he's a hoplite!". No, there is more to the nomenclature, but for convenience we call them "hoplites" due to the resemblances of their arms as represented through the RTW-engine. In real life, the subtle differences might have been enough to distinguish between the types.

How right you are. So how would this definition, that I posted earlier, fit in your opinion?

[soldiers] who fight in usually a dense formation (unless they are Syrakousaian/Massalian/reformed hoplites), have round shields/thureos and again, usually holding the spear in an overhand manner (unless being reformed hoplites)

I will also add that hoplites must have interlocking shields, utilize the "push the person in front of you with your own shield" technique. Any unit that fits, say, two of these things can technically be called a hoplite.

To be a hoplite, a soldier must ideally fight in the Greek phalanx formation. A hoplite-style soldier on the other hand has similar equipment to hoplites but does not fight in a traditional phalanx formation. Keep in mind that this is for EB purposes only. Historically speaking though, a hoplite is usually defined as a Hellenic soldier who employs the spear (not pike!) phalanx formation. From the EB point-of-view, the definition would be different though, including anyone who either shares equipment or uses the formation, but with slightly differing equipment. I know it hazy and maybe a bit inaccurate, but better than nothing, eh? Personally, I like the Russian definition used by Russian military historians of a hoplite better, but I can't really translate that.

[Praetor Diego]

TPC, where do you get (and playing as wich faction) the 2nd and 3rd persian "hoplites"? :)

[Aemilius Paulus]

I believe it was Pahlava and Haysadan. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Doesn't seem like any other nation could own them. Anyway, Praetor Diego, why did you say "2nd and 3rd". Do you know which nation the first belongs to?

[Praetor Diego]

I was pretty sure that the first one was from Pahlava. But to be honest I only used that unit in the custom battle, with the campaign EDU file insted the multiplayer one. So is the parthian one or a generic one. Not sure really, I will check it at home.

[Anastasios Helios]

Thanks for trying to keep guys OT Paulus. Yes this a HOPLITE THREAD! you want to do your own thread, theres the door.

Red Sea Hoplites? I must say I've never encountered them before... Please throw a picture up of them... if they are indeed hoplites

Here you go....seriously you guys should cool it. Вы в частности Амелиус Палус. Вы являетесь слишком конфронтационными.

[desert]

Thank Pyrrhos for Babelfish Translator.