And the Winner Is...

[ICantSpellDawg]

To present Iraq as a string of victories upon victories reeks of fanboyism, of partisan blindspots. Perhaps the last two US administrations made some, shall we say, mistakes and miscalculations regarding Iraq?

To present it as a string of defeats reeks of what?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

If you buy $500 million dollars worth of lottery tickets you can't "win" the lottery.

[ICantSpellDawg]

If you buy $500 million dollars worth of lottery tickets you can't "win" the lottery.

Sure you can.

[KarlXII]

Sure you can.

The point is, was it worth it?

[ICantSpellDawg]

The point is, was it worth it?

Spending $500 million dollars to win a jackpot of $500 million dollars is a nonequivalent comparison. It implies that freedom for 30,000,000 people has a dollar value and that we have met it.

I believe that a stable Iraq without tyrannical rule will be more rewarding than many of us can imagine. For the United States, for Iraq, and for people all over the world.

I'm no stickler for a particular brand of democracy, only that people can appeal to a government that abhors arbitrariness and that answers in a real and reviewable way to its entire constituency.

I think that we need to find the victories in Iraq particularly because it has cost so many so much and is intertwined with an honorable objective.

[KarlXII]

Spending $500 million dollars to win a jackpot of $500 million dollars is a nonequivalent comparison.

I always though lottery's were around 1 million. Hence the "500 million for 1 million".

I believe that a stable Iraq without tyrannical rule will be more rewarding than many of us can imagine. For the United States, for Iraq, and for people all over the world.

Why's that? Why is Iraq so damn special that it's put above places like Sudan where people have been suffering for years? We could've done a damn lot more good helping poor nations get back on their feet. I mean, with all the money we spent on Iraq, we could've been helping out the starving people in the Congo and end the Darfur genocide.

I think that we need to find the victories in Iraq particularly because it has cost so many so much and is intertwined with an honorable objective.

To find non existant weapons?

Which actually raises the question, when did Iraq stop being about the Weapons that we went in for and start becoming the great crusade of liberation? Was it around the "Mission Accomplished" mark?

[ICantSpellDawg]

I always though lottery's were around 1 million. Hence the "500 million for 1 million".

Lottery value varies

Why's that? Why is Iraq so damn special that it's put above places like Sudan where people have been suffering for years? We could've done a damn lot more good helping poor nations get back on their feet. I mean, with all the money we spent on Iraq, we could've been helping out the starving people in the Congo and end the Darfur genocide.

Iraq is special for many reasons. For the ideological reasons it has feet to stand on when we help it up.

Which actually raises the question, when did Iraq stop being about the Weapons that we went in for and start becoming the great crusade of liberation? Was it around the "Mission Accomplished" mark?

When we realized that there were no WMD's. We went in for a number of other reasons, all of which have been consistently articulated for many years.

Security from WMD proliferation was one of the primary objectives and the objective that best helped sell the war to the American people. I beleived then as I blieve now that the war in Iraq has been worth the cost.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sure you can.

Then why doesn't bill gates buy a bunch of lottery tickets?

[ICantSpellDawg]

Then why doesn't bill gates buy a bunch of lottery tickets?

Ask yourself again what you are comparing. Then ask if you want to stand by your analogy.

You could have just said "we've over paid", but then you'd get into an argument that put a physical price tag on a metaphysical value.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ask yourself again what you are comparing. Then ask if you want to stand by your analogy.

You could have just said "we've over paid", but then you'd get into an argument that put a physical price tag on a metaphysical value.

Isn't the pleasure of winning the lottery a metaphysical value? But no doubt you'd compare it to the freedom of millions of people and consider it lesser. You are in effect putting a price tag on it. Just like bill gates looks at the r.o.i. of the lottery and puts his money elsewhere. How many people die a year from malaria? How much money would it take to save them? I'll stand by my analogy any day.

[CrossLOPER]

Isn't the pleasure of winning the lottery a metaphysical value? But no doubt you'd compare it to the freedom of millions of people and consider it lesser. You are in effect putting a price tag on it. Just like bill gates looks at the r.o.i. of the lottery and puts his money elsewhere. How many people die a year from malaria? How much money would it take to save them? I'll stand by my analogy any day.

That does not sound very ideologically valuable.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Isn't the pleasure of winning the lottery a metaphysical value? But no doubt you'd compare it to the freedom of millions of people and consider it lesser. You are in effect putting a price tag on it. Just like bill gates looks at the r.o.i. of the lottery and puts his money elsewhere. How many people die a year from malaria? How much money would it take to save them? I'll stand by my analogy any day.

So your argument is that because other things cost money, any money spent on the war in Iraq is wasted in the wrong direction. What was an acceptable price tag for the war in Iraq?

Free nations with un-obstructive governments will benefit from disease control the most and be able to perpetuate it beyond the acute western intervention. Spread the freedom first.