The Real Meaning of Christmas

[Caius]

Which is the real meaning of Christmas? I made the poll, so vote!

[Strike For The South]

To celebrate the birth of Jesus. For the first nine years of my life I demanded a cake, my mum saw through my clever ruse though.

[Caius]

Dont you celebrate with friends or family?

[Strike For The South]

Dont you celebrate with friends or family?

I do but it is all secondary

[rory_20_uk]

Family. Sod all else matters.

Due to work we are considering moving Christmas to the Russian Orthodox which is a lot more convenient.

[Vladimir]

Christ mas is to celebrate birth of Jesus regardless of any other consideration. I don't care how it came to be, what pagan holidays were incorporated into it, or what it has become. I also don't care how you celebrate it. I mainly care about the affect you have on others while celebrating it (or not).

[Hooahguy]

i dont celebrate xmas, but if i was christian i would value the birth of Juuuueeeeezus (what my history teacher calls him) more over anything else. that and family, but i didnt realize you could choose more than 1 until i had already pressed the "submit vote" button.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Nothing hahaha

[Husar]

You really have to wonder why it is called Christmas and not FamilyMeetingmas in English.

[Beefy187]

In Japan, for none Christians its just a beautiful day with fantastic illumination for you and your girl friend to enjoy. And for those poor gentleman like my self who spend their Christmas alone its the day when you bang your head on the wall unless you want to spend it shopping with your mum.

For Christians, its Christs birthday.

[Watchman]

Twenty bucks says the original main business involved the winter solstice, which was a big thing everywhere.
Christians, pff. Usurpers.

But it's a nice opportunity to visit family and splurge on fine food.

[Martok]

For me, it's all about spending it with friends and family. Since I'm not Christian, that's really all that matters.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm not even remotely religious, but I still think Jesus deserves a holiday.

I agree with much of what he reportedly believed and taught. After all, we have holidays for the strangest crap. Jesus is at least representative of a philosophy that's trying to alter the planet in a positive way.

[Sigurd]

You really have to wonder why it is called Christmas and not FamilyMeetingmas in English.

I know you guys call it Weihnachten, but sometimes lose the h as in Weinachtsbaum.
My German is not good enough to understand the root meaning of the words. But something along sanctification night? and when dropping the 'h' becomes Wine night?

Here in the North we use the old form: Jul which should translate to Yule in English.
The use of Xmas is IMO a deliberate anti Christian term. Why not just use Yule which is the old term?

And since we are discussing the topic:
What is the root meaning of Noël and Navidad?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Actually, Xmas is short for Christmas. The letter X comes from the greek letter chi, which is the first Greek letter in Kristos. Χριστος (Greek for "Christ")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas#History

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labarum


Christ has been abbreviated thusly for millennia. It is not part of ANY deliberate attempt to take the Christ out of Christmas, which I'm sorry to say, is an imagined plot. Any concerted effort to take Christ out of Christmas would fail, as there are a billion Christians on the planet who might care about it, and far fewer atheists and non-theists who find Christ offensive (the insignificant minority of them).

Most of us non-theists actually appreciate and admire Christ, as a leader, philosopher, and spiritual man. The bottom line is that we just don't think he's God incarnate, or that there is one. That doesn't mean we hate him. In fact, I've made it my personal duty to be more informed about Christ than the average Christian. I have several Bibles and am aware of cross-cultural and non-Christian perspectives on Christ. You'd be surprised how many non-Christian groups think Christ was a damn swell guy.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yule was, interestingly enough, originally a pagan holiday which has nothing to do with Christmas, Christ, or Christianity, other than western Christians borrowing from pagan traditions of Yule, such as the Yule log, and the christmas ham or Yule Boar.

[Sigurd]

Christ has been abbreviated thusly for millennia. It is not part of ANY deliberate attempt to take the Christ out of Christmas, which I'm sorry to say, is an imagined plot.

Nice...

What is funny then, is that those who use X-mas as a deliberate removal of Christ (I know this firsthand) is in fact subscribing to an ancient tradition where Christ is very present in the word.
I must convey this to those involved.

Thank you for the heads up pizzaguy.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Christ has been abbreviated thusly for millennia. It is not part of ANY deliberate attempt to take the Christ out of Christmas, which I'm sorry to say, is an imagined plot.

This is true, and it's why many Christians historically did not celebrate Christmas.

[JAG]

To see family and friends but, clearly, far more importantly, it is for big stores to sell loads of stuff - stuff we really need.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Nice...

What is funny then, is that those who use X-mas as a deliberate removal of Christ (I know this firsthand) is in fact subscribing to an ancient tradition where Christ is very present in the word.
I must convey this to those involved.

Thank you for the heads up pizzaguy.

If you see anyone deliberately trying to remove Christ from Christmas, send them to me.

Even from a non-religious standpoint, Christ wasn't a bad guy, and his life inspired people for thousands of years, great men like Gandhi and Martin Luther King, who both also are important to MY life. I'm totally non-religious and I deeply respect the man for his overwhelmingly positive influence on the world.

I give the militant anti-Christians a good smack upside the head and I say "no non-theist that's a bad non-theist. No, non-theist this is my Pot Pie! Get out of here! Bad non-theist!". And then they go away and worship themselves, which doesn't hurt anyone.

Though rumor has it your palms get hairy and then you go blind.

[Megas Methuselah]

That's an interesting viewpoint, Pizza. Just out of curiosity, what do you have to say about the Crusades?

[Askthepizzaguy]

The crusades were a direct contradiction of the message Christ spread before his death.

That's irrefutable; Jesus was a pacifist. He fought no battles, raised no swords, and allowed himself to be captured without resistance and died for a cause. He refused to murder anyone for power, land, resources, or any other reason. It says in the Bible that you should not murder, and the crusades were mass murder sanctioned by the Pope, in direct violation of Christian teachings.

I suppose he thought it was OK to ignore the "word of God" if a few thousand Muslims got slaughtered in the process. I do not defend the Muslims either, their conquests were brutal and unnecessary.

Fortunately the Pope does not speak for all Christians. Orthodox, Protestant, and Nontrinitarians alike as well as some Catholics do not consider the Pope to be the sole representative of thier God, fortunately. My opinion of the current Pope is higher than some previous ones, but I still oppose the Papacy quite vehemently.

" I give you a new commandment,
that you love one another.
Just as I have loved you,
you also should love one another.
By this everyone will know
that you are my disciples,
if you have love for one another."

John 13:34-35

The crusades had nothing to do with love, and everything to do with politics, racism, xenophobia, ignorance, and unjust warfare.



This is why I contradict and challenge every single so-called Christian who takes up arms to invade a foreign land. Jesus would be furious. The so-called church and many of their followers are hypocrites for spreading this message, but then going against it.

[Banquo's Ghost]

You anti-papists are missing the point.

It's best explained by Vice-Pope Eric (Number 2 at the Vatican) in conversation with Brian Stalin:

Of course people accuse us sometimes of not practising what we preach, but you must remember that if you're trying to propagate a creed of poverty, gentleness and tolerance, you need a very rich, powerful, authoritarian organisation to do it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Mmmm.... Satisfying.


I always knew the Pope had at least one vice.

[Husar]

I know you guys call it Weihnachten, but sometimes lose the h as in Weinachtsbaum.
My German is not good enough to understand the root meaning of the words. But something along sanctification night? and when dropping the 'h' becomes Wine night?

Here in the North we use the old form: Jul which should translate to Yule in English.
The use of Xmas is IMO a deliberate anti Christian term. Why not just use Yule which is the old term?

We do not take the h out of anything, the real word is Weihnachtsbaum, anything else must be a typo or lack of knowledge. Your translations however are correct, where Weihnachten really comes from I'm not one hundred percent sure but I suppose it's the same thing as Jul or Yule.

Weihnachten would mean something like sanctification night(s) which could be either pagan or christian I guess, it would be too cheesy to look it up on wikipedia however and might spoil the nice ambiguity where I can see it anyway I want.

And Pizza, I find myself agreeing with pretty much everything you say about Jesus and the Pope, it's completely beyond me how someone who read the bible could think the Pope is God's legitimate representative on earth or something like that, it already starts with elections where they may even not arrive at a conclusion, show me a story in the bible where God had people vote for a prophet or king and they didn't arrive at a conclusion or maybe God couldn't decide, yeah, sure... it's just laughable.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I can accept a laughable idea.

Look, scientists currently think there are how many dimensions? And that there are alternate universes, wormholes, etc. To me, these things are laughable, and beyond my comprehension. That doesn't mean they could never be true.

What I cannot accept is the blind, unwavering, devotion to an untested and theoretically untestable assumption, making it part of your rational thought processes, accepting it wholesale as fact, never questioning it, never doubting it, and harassing those who do not accept it.

What I can accept is when more rational, provable sciences contradict a laughable idea, but people still believe in it. Hey, some people believe in Santa Claus, even when faced with proof that he's a myth. However, there are people, dressed as Santa Claus, and there is gift-giving, and there are deer, and there are sleighs. So parts of it are true, and the "spirit" behind the fable is contained within a bit of truth all its own.

What I cannot accept is someone risking their lives to swim to the North Pole to visit Santa Claus, in spite of the freezing temperatures and real risk of death.

_____________


The idea is to separate in your mind what we know from what we believe, and to rationally decide from what we know, and to consider as a possibility but not let dominate our lives that which we believe. A separation of church and state, a separation of reason and faith. When we cannot do that, then faith is dangerous and should be destroyed.

However, imagination, creativity, hope and inspiration, all flow from the less rational part of our minds. That is why, although I am HIGHLY critical of faith, I can coexist with people of faith. There can be a place for it, if we are mature enough to handle it and rational enough to keep it in perspective.

When my parents are on their deathbed, and they ask me to pray with them, I will. I am not closed to ideas. I just do not rely solely on prayer, nor do I pin rational hopes on it's success. That, and when I see plain contradictions in faiths, church doctrine, teachings and actions, I point them out. I am critical and skeptical of everything. Not everyone is like me and I can accept that.

Faith and reason, both have their uses, but keep them separated and both in perspective.

[Rhyfelwyr]

The worst thing I ever did in my life was to trust in my own logic and reasoning, it kept me in the dark for a long time. They're fine for day to day tasks and decisions, but when it comes to the big issues they simply can't begin to comprehend them by themselves. We need guidance on those. As Martin Luther said (according to a M2TW loading screen), "faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding".

[Lord Winter]

@ Pizza good post.

The worst thing I ever did in my life was to trust in my own logic and reasoning, it kept me in the dark for a long time. They're fine for day to day tasks and decisions, but when it comes to the big issues they simply can't begin to comprehend them by themselves. We need guidance on those. As Martin Luther said (according to a M2TW loading screen), "faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding".

True you need faith, but theres a fine line between being open to the idea of a God and blindly accepting everything. If your fate can't be tested then whats the point of having it?

On the other hand how should you translate fate to action? The bibles only so good as a source of truth; its gone through multiable versions and translations and even contrdicts at some parts. Taking an absolute reading from the text is impossiable to any degree. Can reason not be used to apply faith?

[CountArach]

The worst thing I ever did in my life was to trust in my own logic and reasoning

[Mangudai]

I can accept a laughable idea.

Look, scientists currently think there are how many dimensions? And that there are alternate universes, wormholes, etc. To me, these things are laughable, and beyond my comprehension. That doesn't mean they could never be true.

What I cannot accept is the blind, unwavering, devotion to an untested and theoretically untestable assumption, making it part of your rational thought processes, accepting it wholesale as fact, never questioning it, never doubting it, and harassing those who do not accept it.

However, imagination, creativity, hope and inspiration, all flow from the less rational part of our minds. That is why, although I am HIGHLY critical of faith, I can coexist with people of faith. There can be a place for it, if we are mature enough to handle it and rational enough to keep it in perspective.

Well said!