Piracy makes a comeback

[Tribesman]

Well first a suggestion of guns being the answer now he suggests chemical warfare .
But OK ...what problems do the use of lime as a weapon in any environment let alone a maritime environment pose to the defenders who use it

[JR-]

I have a lot of sympathy for the view expressed here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../19/do1908.xml
that we brought this piracy on ourselves.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I have a lot of sympathy for the view expressed here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../19/do1908.xml
that we brought this piracy on ourselves.

I think the opinion expressed by that writer is wrong.

Piracy is nearly as old as shipping. Banditry is older only because ships were developed later in history than were feet.

Anywhere where the "powers that be" do not patrol and work to prevent this craft it will flourish. After all, piracy -- from the pirate's perspective -- has always had a great cost-benefit ratio. Greed has always been a component of human nature.

So, what will this author pin on Bush43 once they've run out of current events to characterize? WW2? The Crusades? Stuff and piffle.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Well first a silly suggestion of guns being the answer now he suggests chemical warfare .
But OK lets humour the creature ...what problems do the use of lime as a weapon in any environment let alone a maritime environment pose to the defenders who use it


have you ever considered thinking before you type ?

Did you consider, prior to posting this one, that the English language contains many ways to indicate you believe someone is wrong without being personally insulting at the same time?

[yesdachi]

Well first a suggestion of guns being the answer now he suggests chemical warfare .
But OK ...what problems do the use of lime as a weapon in any environment let alone a maritime environment pose to the defenders who use it

Is scurvy a chemical weapon?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

These thugs don't attack cruise liners. Though go after cargo vessels.

They do not want a confrontation, they want the first moment you notice they're on board to be the moment they tap you on the shoulder with the muzzle of their Kalishnikov.

Given the crew size on modern merchant shippping, the idea of an active defense is laughable. They've been working hard to get the crew of a mega-merchant BELOW 30 people. A half dozen zodiacs mean the pirates outnumber their opposition. Arm the merchies all you want, they don't have the crew to both sail and defend the ship anymore. In fact, history suggests that they seldom did even in the old ragwagon era.

Moreover, does anyone here understand just how difficult it is to mount a successful defensive watch under the varied conditions involved? Suffice to say, I believe the answer is "more than those 30 crew can reliably do in their spare time." Remember, the only ones on those ships now have busy jobs -- there is no need for "waisters" to haul ropes and run capstans. So any active armed defense would involve each merchant shipping, effectively, a group of marines. Some companies may be willing to go to such an expense, but most will just get the insurance and transfer the bulk of the risk that way.

The most effective "defense" is observant watchstanders and a radio. Manuever to make intercepts difficult and call in the "cavalry."

If their is a military solution to piracy, it does NOT rely on merchant ships trying active defense. Too impractical on a number of levels. Now, a navy Q-ship might make for a lot of fun....


Side notes: RPGs are a great weapon for pirates precisely BECAUSE they can't do significant damage to the ship. Their weapons are strictly anti-crew. They'd prefer to ransom you back with the ship/cargo, but any defense and they'll just chum you.

[yesdachi]

These thugs don't attack cruise liners.

Side thought: Think of the haul if they just picked up the cash and personal effects of the passengers.

[rory_20_uk]

Convoys.

I imagine one Frigate would be able to supervise several ships under most circumstances. Seeing as how at a distance from shore motherships would be required these would be detectable at a distance. These could be intercepted as required and nutralised as required.

I would have thought that this is better than several ships blindly trawling the area hoping to almost stumble over the somali pirates.

The cost would be no higher than having the ships there at the moment. I imagine that with the number of ships being taken is rising, insurance will eventually increase and so the cost of being in a convoy would be offset.

[Jolt]

...The USA hasn't tested a nuke in quite a while. Why not let Bush withdraw under the spotlight by ordering a nuke attack on Somalia, not only just to how powerful nukes are nowadays, but also to clean any and all pirate supporters? (And potential pirate supporters as well) :P

[Tribesman]

Convoys.

You mean like the French operating out of Djibouti are doing ?
Two military ships which means they are allowed to put armed parties on two merchant ships too without any legal complications then getting a whole pile of other ships by appointment to escort and also allowing any other ships to tag along as a non convoyed part of the convoy .
Kinda makes sense doesn't it , its all nice and legal and you don't have the problem of having to declare you are at war to put armed people on civilian ships (a declaration which would of course put not only the insurance up but would mean you had to pay all the crew premium wage rates) .
The only downsides of the operation is that they won't take slow ships and the ships have to wait as its only one convoy opeating the journey up and then the journey down the Gulf of Aden , but they are not much of a downside are they .

[Strike For The South]

Am I the only one who finds this to be full of awesome? THERE ARE PIRATES AND THEY ARE TAKING GOODS! and here we are bickering about how to protect the ships! I say, why let the Somalis have all the fun? The org should buy a ship and start stealing things. Then we could buy Sealand and live forever on our compound safe from the outside world!

Plunder FTW

[Strike For The South]

Y'all see that? It's a golden opportunity passing right through our fingers.

Metaphorically AND literally

[Tribesman]

These thugs don't attack cruise liners. Though go after cargo vessels.

Well there was that Seabourn Spirit cruise liner , that was attacked by pirates with RPGs and machine guns , funny though since the heavily armed pirates were beaten by hoses and a loud siren .

They do not want a confrontation, they want the first moment you notice they're on board to be the moment they tap you on the shoulder with the muzzle of their Kalishnikov.

Yep , in the same way that a mugger couldn't give a damn if you have a concealed gun because he intends that you won't notice until it is too late for you to do anything .
Now I suppose an example might be needed for those that still can't grasp that guns might be the answer , and what better example than that kiwi Blake , a person whose actions have been described by some of his crew and the local police as not only very silly but downright stupid as they put the rest of his crewat serious risk , silly actions of course that led to his own death for the sake of an inflatable boat and a couple of watches ....So heres to Peter Blake , a great sailor but a bit of a silly bugger

Is scurvy a chemical weapon?

Nice
I wouldn't know about lime juice but that concentrated lemon juice that comes in a handy little squeezy bottle can work wonders if you want to give someone a good kicking but are unsure if you are able for the job

[JR-]

Yep , in the same way that a mugger couldn't give a damn if you have a concealed gun because he intends that you won't notice until it is too late for you to do anything .
Now I suppose an example might be needed for those that still can't grasp that guns might be the answer...........

that is a choice that some nations make, their decision, their consequences. i'm sure they're quite happy with it regardless of what people of other nations 'feel' on the matter.

[ICantSpellDawg]

So what is the problem with piracy? Nobody is dying and companies don't want to pay for precautions.

It is building up Somali towns much more effectively than any proactive initiatives would.

If we arn't prepared to move in to the land havens then these are tax dollars being wasted to protect (failingly) cheap companies.

Maybe if we let it get out of hand it will act like a natural tariff.

Age of Piracy 2.0 rules

[Shaka_Khan]

If this gets out of hand, the price of various things could go up due to so many supplies being taken away by the pirates.

[Husar]

So basically the answer is to equip merchant ships with automatic cannons and missile launchers that will automatically target any small boat in a vicinity of 200 nautic miles? Or perhaps a MAD scenario where you put a nuke into every ship that the crew can detonate and send all those annoying pirates to hell? It's only a few deaths to make sure our prices will stay down but I suppose we crew the ships with the supporters of such great ideas so that they can make sure it all works out as it was supposed to.

By the way, at my work it is also so that when we get robbed we are supposed to give out all the money and call the police later. One of my colleagues who got robbed before said it's usually really fast and the robbers will even jump over the counter etc. How anyone could possbly think about getting a wepon when one is already aimed at their head is beyond me but go ahead, it's funny to read about the great and heroic battles of tankers vs. pirates.

[Shaka_Khan]

So what is the problem with piracy? Nobody is dying .....

But when the shooting starts:

I heard the locations of the captured ships are not secret. The international community won't attack the pirate bases because of civilian casualties.

There is of course the slight problem that since these acts of piracy result in hostage situations it means that there are hostages .

[ICantSpellDawg]

But when the shooting starts:

Preaching to the choir.