How do I get these guys to attack me!?

[Irish]

Im in the middle of a battle right now. I was attacked by about 2800 rebels, completely made of skirmishers, archers, and horse archers. I had my general, 2 archer-spearmen, 1 archer, and 4 phalanx (the medium crappy ones).

Well I'm on the top of this hill, and they have completely run out of ammo. All 10 million arrows or however many they shot. My phalanxes have about 150-200 guys in each unit, spearmen have 60 or so in each, and I have 10 bodyguards left for my general (I'm playing as Baktria).

My phalanx is in a semi-circle with all my other guys in the middle. But they won't attack me! They were the ones who instigated the battle, so I thought the AI had the mindset of "kill kill kill!"

How can I get them to engage me? Everytime I try to engage them, they just run away, and I'm afraid if my phalanxes get too far away from one another, they are going to get run over by horses from the back!

[Tartaros]

Try to build a net with your phalanx - wide as possible only 2 man deep, the rest is reinforcement - and then catch them

[zooeyglass]

are you playing with battle timer on? if you are, then just waited...they attacked, so the onus is on them to win, and you waiting = victory.

however if you're not playing with battle timer, net idea is a good un. and take things slowly.

[Irish]

I finally won, lost about a third of my phalanx. I just made a huge line, but some horses got behind and all ganged up on one phalanx. They fought them off, but at great cost.

What really made me angry was that after I won, they still had units left, even though it said both armies would be destoryed if they did not win. So I had to assault the city. I lost a lot of soldiers, but I finally won, and can now create a buffer to prevent the Saka from walking into my lands.

[zooeyglass]

I finally won, lost about a third of my phalanx. I just made a huge line, but some horses got behind and all ganged up on one phalanx. They fought them off, but at great cost.

What really made me angry was that after I won, they still had units left, even though it said both armies would be destoryed if they did not win. So I had to assault the city. I lost a lot of soldiers, but I finally won, and can now create a buffer to prevent the Saka from walking into my lands.

definitely worth a very spiky buffer between you and saka. what city was it you took?

[Aemilius Paulus]

! They were the ones who instigated the battle, so I thought the AI had the mindset of "kill kill kill!"

I you haven't noticed it already, AI units who have the skirmish mode special ability do not normally attack you in melee. It is very annoying, as I have fought countless battles with rebels who had some missile units and those were a pain in the rear to catch. They will always run from you, unless one of your units happens to stray away from the main force and AI feels like it is stronger than that unit, which is when it will gang up on you.

The AI can be pretty smart with missile units as I have noticed. I have repeatedly noticed that AI archers will refuse to target a really high armour units that I specifically moved into the AI missile range in order to drain the AI ammunition. But the moment I send in a normal or low armour unit, the AI unleashes all hell. At other times I have observed the AI simply stand by as my unit entered their range, and then as soon as that unit of mine turned its backs to the AI, they began discharging their missiles.

EDIT: Does anyone play EB campaign with the timed battles turned on? That would be rather stupid/shortsighted IMHO. EB battles often take so long that one would lose several times in the middle of the battle. Especially on huge unit scale. Also how would one deal with chasing missile units in 40 minutes?

[Irish]

I just started my a new game. I took Kophen on some of my first turns, and the big battle happened around Gava-whatziemahasit.

[Praetor Diego]

I you haven't noticed it already, AI units who have the skirmish mode special ability do not normally attack you in melee. It is very annoying, as I have fought countless battles with rebels who had some missile units and those were a pain in the rear to catch. They will always run from you, unless one of your units happens to stray away from the main force and AI feels like it is stronger than that unit, which is when it will gang up on you.

The AI can be pretty smart with missile units as I have noticed. I have repeatedly noticed that AI archers will refuse to target a really high armour units that I specifically moved into the AI missile range in order to drain the AI ammunition. But the moment I send in a normal or low armour unit, the AI unleashes all hell. At other times I have observed the AI simply stand by as my unit entered their range, and then as soon as that unit of mine turned its backs to the AI, they began discharging their missiles.

EDIT: Does anyone play EB campaign with the timed battles turned on? That would be rather stupid/shortsighted IMHO. EB battles often take so long that one would lose several times in the middle of the battle. Especially on huge unit scale. Also how would one deal with chasing missile units in 40 minutes?

I always play with the timed battles turn on (I play on large scale). That prevent that kind of annoying situations that Irish mention. Specially when the enemy have just one or two units remaining in an all-wood map, and you cant find them. Also that force you to be more agressive when you are on attack, specially during sieges. In your opinion, witch is the advantage of the time turned off? More time to maneouver?



Sorry for my english :)

[TruePraetorian]

I personally don't think of it as cheating, but on occasion I'll turn the battle timer on right before certain battles..such as if the AI is attacking my city. It gets kind of annoying when you get those general units that just stand outside the walls. I mean, when I am beat, and I know it, I hit the w key (only once tyvm). Attacking a city for me means try to win at all costs, or withdraw and avoid casualties. The AI..well, they think that if they wait long enough ill get angry and turn off my computer, which is an AI victory.

The AI in RTW is smarter then we think

[Celtic_Punk]

I never use the timer. I remember the first time I played RTW, I had a huge battle between me and the the Bruttii (omg i remember those names! ) and then the game just randomly ended in the heat of the battle, forcing me to lose, abandoning the invasion of italy!!!! I was well pissed, and have never used timer since. the only thing i can see it being used for is so you can possibly win against like one million persians when you have but a few thousand.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I'm the same way but the other way around. I always have the timer on because of bad experiences in the past. Things like HAs that run circles around the map or enemies that are deployed inside of buildings have cost me battles in the past when I was forced to retreat. I always have the timer on now. Plus there are the occational siege attacks against you where the AI decides against assualting as soon as the battle begins but doesn't retreat either and just sits there.

[El_Poli]

I always use the timer too. I cant stand when the AI attacks me and then just sits around and does nothing. This way if he attacks but then is too scared to actually attack, he still loses.

Besides, I'd get super bored of a battle if it lasted 45 minutes anyways.

[Tyrfingr]

Same for me, I always use the timer for the reasons mentioned above

[Grriffon]

I have had AI armies, ones that include horse archers usually, decide that they did not want to attack me, even though they started battle, and when I waited for the timer to go out, it called it a Draw. I never found a way to get them to attack me though. Either wait for the Draw, or advance carefully and try to pin them down as if you were on the offensive.

[DaCrAzYmOfO]

I have had AI armies, ones that include horse archers usually, decide that they did not want to attack me, even though they started battle, and when I waited for the timer to go out, it called it a Draw. I never found a way to get them to attack me though. Either wait for the Draw, or advance carefully and try to pin them down as if you were on the offensive.

That pretty much sounds like the tactic a good steppe player would use against an infantry based AI...

sneaky AI....they are smarter than we think....like someone else said earlier

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

I never have a problem with an inept battle AI. They can be eventually lured into a fight through several schemes.

[Ignopotens]

I always turn the timer off after having battles end suddenly back in MTW

[Celtic_Punk]

Exactly is way too frustrating to put so much blood and sweat into a battle to have it ruined by a bloody unrealistic timer. It kills the immersion completely.

[Praetor Diego]

But the timer has a limit of 30-40 min... thats not enought?

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

I never use the timer. Sometimes, in vanilla pre-1.5, the timer only allowed some 13 minutes. Your bad luck if you were trying to storm Alexandria. You were forced to abandon all caution and rush to the center as fast as possible. And just before you had finally killed of the General who didn't want to die the last 5 minutes, you lose the battle because of the stupid timer. I only once encountered a problem with the timer not on, when I was forced to leave a city as the defender and confront with Horse Archers... I would have liked it better to just wait it out.

[Cbvani]

But the timer has a limit of 30-40 min... thats not enought?

No, it isn't, depending on your army composition. I, for one, am slow and methodical if I have an infantry-based army, because I prefer fewest number of casualties as possible. You have to get on good terrain, protect your flanks on the move, keep an eye on the enemy, decide how to assault their line (if on the offensive) or lay out mine (if on the defensive) so I can eventually flank and rout them, or at least hold them (I have never had a battle where it could go either way the whole time. It is usually decided by who can get the other guy to rout first). Have to figure out how to kill their general, etc. This takes a while. Now, if I have a cavalry-based army, like a lovely steppe one, battles are shorter and more brutal. If I have ranged cavalry, expect them to run around like crazy, firing on whoever has their backs turned at the moment (or the enemy archers and slingers), get the high ground, flank, disrupt, and confuse, and, when the moment is right (when every last arrow has been fired) to charge at a weak spot.

Facing ranged cavalry with any kind of army is a real problem, because they use the same tactics I do. In those cases I go after their infantry first. If I have a steppe faction, I don't USE infantry except to take over cities when a long siege isn't an option.

Oh, and on siege battles with stone walls, expect an hour or more to be used as I take the city slowly, first by getting on the walls, then by doing a lap around the city with my units up there to get all the towers to fire inward, and FINALLY do I bring in my main force when they will no longer venture out of the city center, which can take a while.

I do this, because I am often short on funds and far from a reinforcement or retraining point. Every man is precious - if he dies today, he won't fight tomorrow, when that enemy full stack arrives.

Oh yeah, and if I've fired every arrow with ranged cavalry and still think the battle would be to costly (or impossible) to win, I run away. The computer should do this more often, I think. I hate chasing cavalry that won't engage all over the map.

[Praetor Diego]

I agree with you in multiplayer, but during a single palyer game the IA doesnt represent a big challenge, and you can win with minimal casualities easily. And in short time. Even in sieges. And defensive battles are even easier.

[Nobo]

I have never had any problems with the timer... the 40 minutes are usually more than enough time for me to finish (or be finished off)

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I just roleplay that the timer is when the sun is setting. When the sun sets, I'm (or the enemy is) forced to disengage to prevent disorder amoungst the ranks.

[Tartaros]

i don´t use the timer in eb.
sieging towns and fighting with lowbudgettroops against phalanx need a lot of time, but i remember shogun where i stop an enemy army with one unit of light cav, riding around the countryside...

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

In reality, no ancient army (except a HA army) would attack a phalanx-army that was on top of a hill. A phalanx was very hard to penetrate frontally on level ground. Trying to do it while struggling uphill would be suicidal, unless the attackers had a massive numerical advantage.

So the AI is doing the right thing by not attacking under such unfavourable circumstances. It is better for them to wait at the bottom of the hill and force you to attack them.

[Aemilius Paulus]

In reality, no ancient army (except a HA army) would attack a phalanx-army that was on top of a hill. A phalanx was very hard to penetrate frontally on level ground. Trying to do it while struggling uphill would be suicidal, unless the attackers had a massive numerical advantage.

Battle of Cynoscephalae. The Romani crushed the 25-30 thousand almost all-phalanx Makedonian army with only 500 dead. Philip V and his phalanxes were on top of a hill (a couple of side-by-side hills actually).

Why did you state the horse-archer army as an exception? Cavalry generally needs/prefers flat, unbroken ground and shooting someone who is on top of a hill is not exactly advantageous. Plus, a pike or a hoplite phalanx was highly resilient to missile fire.

[Intranetusa]

Battle of Cynoscephalae. The Romani crushed the 25-30 thousand almost all-phalanx Makedonian army with only 500 dead. Philip V and his phalanxes were on top of a hill (a couple of side-by-side hills actually).

Why did you state the horse-archer army as an exception? Cavalry generally needs/prefers flat, unbroken ground and shooting someone who is on top of a hill is not exactly advantageous. Plus, a pike or a hoplite phalanx was highly resilient to missile fire.

The Romans suffered way more casualties than 500. Roman historians tended to exaggerate enemy numbers and understate their own casualties/unit numbers to make themselves seem more heroic. And I believe the Romans outnumbered the Makedonians 3 to 2 in that battle as well.

[Dutchhoplite]

Not only that but the macedonian phalanx was severely handicapped by the rough terrain in that battle.

[Marcus Ulpius]

I always use the timer. It's just so annoying to chase enemy HA's all over the map, or trying to find where is that 5 man enemy unit that is stuck between 2 trees in a heavily forested map. 40 minutes is usually enough for me, the only problem is in sieges when you have first to take the walls, and then get by the streets to the city center and kill there every single enemy. In that case sometimes it was a close call, but mostly 40 mins is enough.