Discussion over moderation of spam (moved)

[johnhughthom]

also, if someone were to say that they would like to have unique marching sounds for the Romans in EB II, it would also be a little harsh for an EB team member to respond with cursing and vulgar in his post.

A thread closed by Foot where he told ALL parties to cool down, hardly a good example.

[Aemilius Paulus]

like when they ask if Pannonian cavalry will be in the game, you respond quite harshly.

Check out Rastapopoulos's history of posts and threads. He is the one who made that thread about Pannonian Cavalry. He also made something like 10 other threads asking if each individual unit was going to be in EB II. 99.9% of his posts are those of a troll. He is a troll. He either baits people or posts wildly irrelevant and immature statements. Foot is actually being nice by not banning him altogether for the many bad things Rastapopoulos has done. He even tried to impersonate General Appo once.

[Aemilius Paulus]

watch out about the constructive criticism thing, it is not very welcome by this forum or the EB team. that's why so many people get flamed for it.

Constructive criticism is when you offer a problem and a possible solution. A possible realistic solution. Just criticism is when you complain without offering any solutions or knowing that there is no solution. Not to be confused with reporting a bug. There is a fine line between the two types of criticism. Sometimes people will misunderstand you and sometimes they may even flame you. Not the EB team necessarily, but simply other .Org members. I would avoid criticism altogether, since this is a mod after all. It is free and if you don't like it, just don't play it - bug reporting is fine, but otherwise there is no point to criticism. What people sot often do not understand is that there are priorities, hardcode limitations, impracticalities, and limits to how much work can be done on a single faction (i.e. Romani - everyone wants everything for their good ol' Romans).

Anyway, I thought this thread was going to be locked right in the beginning, but it is even more likely right now. I simply cannot see how this thread can remain open. We are all walking on a tightrope when we post in this thread. Perhaps it would be best if this got locked before it gets hotter.

[Foot]

also, when you say "leave", you mean leave the thread right? I surely don’t hope you are suggesting to me or other moderators that I should permanently leave the EB forum and the Org. right? because if this is the case, well I have to say I am not intimidated one bit.

All I'm asking for is for you to put forward some solid cases where you think we have been unfair to genuine constructive criticism. If you cannot then I would suggest you retract your statement otherwise it is part of the problem not part of the solution, spreading poison against the EB team which we cannot respond to. Its creates an impression of the EB team that is unfair and something that we cannot respond to or rectify. Eventually we get a reputation that is undeserved and we have to close up shop because of the poison being spewed on our forums.

If you do neither of the above then I suggest that you leave, because all you are doing with your above statement is spreading poison against EB, something that I would consider to be trolling.

I hope you understand my position.

Foot

[a completely inoffensive name]

Everyone calm down. You are all arguing on the internet in a video game forum. When people say "The Internet is Serious Business!" they are joking. Kind of a disappointment to see this on the same day when 1.2 came out.

[Pontius Pilate]

All I'm asking for is for you to put forward some solid cases where you think we have been unfair to genuine constructive criticism. If you cannot then I would suggest you retract your statement otherwise it is part of the problem not part of the solution, spreading poison against the EB team which we cannot respond to. Its creates an impression of the EB team that is unfair and something that we cannot respond to or rectify. Eventually we get a reputation that is undeserved and we have to close up shop because of the poison being spewed on our forums.

If you do neither of the above then I suggest that you leave, because all you are doing with your above statement is spreading poison against EB, something that I would consider to be trolling.

I hope you understand my position.

Foot

yes I understand where you're trying to get at, and I am really not trying to put an end to the EB team, trust me, I love the game as much as anyone else. I think we all can agree that everyone on this forum has no sinister intents to end EB, that is just ridiculous. But to point out that I am the main perpetrator who would posion the EB team is also wrong and complete nonsense. I think we all misunderstood each other here. but sometimes this forum can be a little too harsh to posters and what they say. Like when somebody said they would like to have "the sound of Romans marching in EBII" which is more like a coment then criticism, someone instantly started cursing him out with the F word. that to me sounds a bit extreme.


anyway I have said all that I want to say in this thread so I am done with it. if I offended the EB team, or any other Orgers than you have my apologies.(especially the EB team, if they were offended), but if I didn't offend you then you don't have my apologies. and since I have said all that I want to say I am not going to post in this thread anymore, unless someone seriously starts to flame me. I am also not leaving the forum/Org.

[bovi]

Anyway, I thought this thread was going to be locked right in the beginning, but it is even more likely right now. I simply cannot see how this thread can remain open. We are all walking on a tightrope when we post in this thread. Perhaps it would be best if this got locked before it gets hotter.

I moved the stuff, now that thread can continue.

[blitzkrieg80]

i think you confuse Foot and others' politeness for backing down in a contest of alpha spam. There is no winner in a contest of alpha spam.

but if I didn't offend you then you don't have my apologies.

what is this suppose to mean? (rhetorical - don't answer!)

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

This poll has been created to find out just where user opinion lies on the subject of the policing and enforcement of rules in "The Guild" Forums. It is intended to give the moderators a better idea of how their current system is working and what changes (if any) users would like to see.

The choices (since I timed out before the poll could be inserted) are:

1) This place is "family friendly?" #@&@% that! The intertubes are for adults and you guys need to stop being Nazis. We don't need babysitters!

2) You guys could lighten up a bit. Parents are responsible for their own children's 'safety' online. A little swearing and good-old trolling never hurt anyone

3) I think you guys are doing great. This place is fine just the way it is. ( I actually have no opinion because I am afraid of retaliation. I welcome our Overlords)

4) Ummm, the fact that words like "hell" and "damn" are even thought by people, let alone typed for all to see is a horrible testament to the decline of our society. Please save us from ourselves, random internet strangers!

5) You are too permissive, let the purge begin! There is too much free speech already. Start censoring posts and assigning Guild 'minders' to 'gently' re-educate dissidents. The natives are restless and it is your God-given right to violently and overwhelmingly suppress all opposition to control your monster.

[Mediolanicus]

Are you angry because of the reaction to your joke in that locked thread?
You shouldn't, 'twas a good one and the 20000th guy who askes the same question that in the FAQ deserves such an answer.

But new members might not get it and might feel intimidated by it, hence the reaction.


I think the froum ruler and enforcement are good, EB mods allow much, but not too much.

This is not really the place to post this, anyway, since the EB forum doesn't have its own rules and the EB mods can't do much to change them either...


Edit: although I do agree on the fact the
"4) Ummm, the fact that words like "hell" and "damn" are even thought by people, let alone typed for all to see is a horrible testament to the decline of our society. Please save us from ourselves, random internet strangers!"

But again, that has nothing to do with EB or even the EB mods.

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

I choose, option 1

No, the locked thread had nothing to do with it. It's a culmination of other little grievances I have with our overlords. And this is the perfect place because I only come to the EB part of the forums, so I'm only interested in what EB fans have to say.

[Hax]

Okay, I want to say this again:

The Guild are not EB's forums.

They are seperate.

They are not one.

EB's forums are one part of the .org "The Guild".


There is life outside of the EB forums.

For any comments regarding the .org's policy on moderating, I suggest you go here. Don't worry, they don't bite!

[A Very Super Market]

3. Definitely 3.


O__O

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The EB team has no say in how the .Org is moderated, our moderators here enforce the policy as is.

If you have problem with that policy the correct place to go is the Watchtower

[oudysseos]

TTCM, you are labouring under some serious misapprehensions.

1. The forum rules are not set by the EB team but by the org. The rules as they stand are non-negotiable. Here they are:

Forum Rules

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is The Guild, the discussion forum for the Shogun: Total War, Medieval: Total War & Rome: Total War fan site www.totalwar.org.

Considering the real-time nature of this bulletin board, it is impossible for us to review messages or confirm the validity of information posted. Please remember that we do not actively monitor the contents of posted messages and are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of The Guild or any entity associated with The Guild. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact the Moderator(s) of the pertinent forum by using the Report Bad Post facility (there is a link in the bottom left hand corner of each post).

The Staff have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is warranted. This is a manual process, however, so please realise that we may not be able to remove messages immediately. The Staff has also the ability to edit messages by users. When this is deemed necessary, the Staff will make every effort to highlight any edit, as this avoids misunderstandings as to the author of any given text. However, if the content of a post or topic is determined to be predominantly objectionable, it will be deleted instead.

Examples of objectionable messages include (but are not limited to):

* Posts containing addresses of warez sites or anything piracy-related: note that this includes "hacks" designed to enable Shogun: Total War, Medieval: Total War and Rome: Total War to run without a CD. The administration is aware of the fact that some use a "no-CD hack" for the purpose of enhancing their system performance, but we feel that the possible illegal benefits from these hacks outweigh all other considerations. Such hacks also require reverse engineering of the game, and this is in violation of the End User Licence Agreement. Anything pertaining to software piracy in general is highly discouraged.
* Posts containing information on and/or requests for the Shogun: Total War, Medieval: Total War or Rome: Total War CD key codes: if you have lost your CD key, you should contact Electronic Arts or Activision Customer Support. Anyone asking for a CD key here will be assumed to be trying to deny the developers rightful compensation for their work.
* Posts concerning, or asking about, technical specifications for multiplayer cheating. Cheating in the single-player game is a private matter for each user, but cheating in the multiplayer game detracts from everyone's enjoyment, and from the gaming community as a whole.
* Posts containing names of people suspected of cheating in the multiplayer game. This clause has been much debated; its purpose is to avoid fruitless controversy. No conclusive proof on anyone cheating in the multiplayer game can be obtained or presented. Therefore, the Staff and the majority of the patrons (approximately 70% voted in favour) feel that it is for the best to avoid making accusations; even if truthful, their inconclusiveness will probably lead to "flame wars" which are inconvenient to the forum and every member. Keeping of private "cheater blacklists" is allowed, indeed encouraged, but The Guild does not wish to be a medium for this. (Note: in the case of "name posting", the staff will often edit out the name rather than deleting the entire message.)
* Posts containing "spam", such as advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations. Recommending a game you like is not wrong, as long as you are not trying to sell it. User accounts created exclusively for the purpose of posting inconsequential advertisements will be unceremoniously banned.
* Posts containing any generally objectionable material: knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. Posting of copyrighted material, unless the copyright is owned by you or by The Guild, is discouraged. The Guild expects its patrons to remain civil even in the face of disagreements. Any kind of "flaming", slurs, or insults -- addressed to either an individual or a group -- is extremely inappropriate. Please respect etiquette at all times.


Separate forums exist for the purpose of grouping the messages by their primary topic. Please see the Synopsis of the Guild Forums for a rundown of current forums, which a description of each. Care should be taken to post messages only in the forum meant for that type of content. The Staff makes every attempt to keep topics in their correct forums. Topics posted in an inappropriate forum will usually be moved to the appropriate forum (usually with a redirect left in the original forum and a message explaining the transfer), where the discussion can continue. Please note that the supposed inactivity of some forums compared to others is not an excuse to post messages in the wrong place.

Although The Guild does not and cannot review all messages posted, and is not responsible for the content of any message, we at The Guild reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold harmless The Guild, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (the makers of the bulletin board software), and their agents with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s).

We at The Guild also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you.

I have taken the liberty to highlight in red some points that may be of particular interest to you.

2. The EB Team does not owe you anything. All team activity on the public forum is purely voluntary: tech questions answered, bugs hunted, new fans welcomed, previews of upcoming material: none of it is required. We are not your overlords, you are not our subjects. You may leave at any time and new people may look in unimpeded. If you do not like the forum rules or how the EB team chooses to respond (or not) to your demands, you are free to never post again in this forum: you have not paid anybody for any of the work they have done and therefore have no lien against the team. Likewise the team has no lien against you except their responsibility to ensure that the forum rules are followed. Most importantly, the EB team is under no onus to respond to polls like this.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

TTCM, I don't think your joke in that thread was bad (I like sarcasm), and I wonder why it was locked. Normally they give a little explanation why they lock the thread, so perhaps it was an accident?

That said, I don't understand your reaction here right now. If you are so smart to make that sarcastic remark, I don't understand why you feel so p***ed now. I think the moderation in the Guild forums is good, just right.

[Megas Methuselah]

A Roman fanboy? His complaints aren't even worth my attention.

Nevertheless, I'll go with option 3. You're doing great, Bovi.

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

Hang on, now. I'm not directing any of this at the EB team.....EB and its makers are GREAT! This is all about "The Guild" and ".ORG" and "Jelsoft INC" and other ominous sounding groups. Again, this isn't directed at anyone who works on/for/with EB....just the people who run "The Org".

The whole purpose of the poll is simply just to see how people in the EB community feel about the forum regulations/rules. That's all. I am not upset, but do feel that the forum moderators constrain us too much. There are no hard feelings, and there is no anger on my part. There are also no misconceptions on my part. I know who runs what around here. I know the rules are arbitrarily made and enforced by the powers that be - and that use of the forum is a choice; but there's nothing illegal or wrong with me finding out how others feel about them in a public way so that our Overlords might take note.

I have taken the liberty to highlight in red some points that may be of particular interest to you.

Thank you; but they are not of interest, as they do not apply.

So, please just give your vote, or don't vote - your choice. Again, i'm simply interested in hearing how the EB community feels about the censorship on the forum - which from all of this immediate, off-topic backlash, one could possibly say that the Pavlov effect is in full swing. That's all, no hidden agendas.

[bovi]

Moved Marcellus' thread here where similar discussion has gone on.

[Ludens]

If you feel an .Org staff member has been treating you unfairly, you should take it up with an administrator, Ser Clegane or his boss TosaInu. You can also start a thread in a watchtower, although it is considered impolite to do so without first discussing your grievance with the staff member in question or one of the administrators.

If you are complaining against the rules in general, keep in mind that the .Org operates on the credo "If you cannot say it politely, don't say it at all". There are plenty of boards on the internet where you can insult and flame to your heart's content. This is not one of them, and we like it as it is.

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

Moved Marcellus' thread here where similar discussion has gone on.

Aha! Censorship! Totally amazing

[Tellos Athenaios]

Uh? Censorship? Since _when_ does the moving about of books on *public* shelf xyz1 to *public* shelf xyz2 in the library make for censorship of aforementioned books? Likewise, why should moving a collection of some of your public statements to another public statement-collection make for censorship of your statements?

Censorship is the proces whereby content is actively altered under specific conditions/ according specific guidelines/policies. This resembles no such thing.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I really don't see what you're complaining about, if you really want to be "adult" you should stop trying to push the boundaries and demanding the right to use foul and abusive language.

As my father said to me, "It's not funny, it's not clever, and it's not mature."

[a completely inoffensive name]

I don't care anymore, but if I had to choose, I would be stuck between 1 and 2.

[desert]

As my father said to me, "It's not funny, it's not clever, and it's not mature."

Right up with "Assume makes an ass out of u and me".

Sorry, man, but it's true.

[Foot]

On the whole people seem to be far too willing to defend to the death the freedom for destructive speech, but will gladly give up the rights for constructive speech. If you are worried about censorship I would recommend you take your obvious passion for the subject into the battlegrounds of civic society and political self-expression. Do not take this place too seriously.

As for your poll. It is quite obvious not meant as a serious attempt to poll the opinions of the .org users, as your options quite clearly give your true feelings on the subject. A true poll is required to be neutral on its subject, which yours certainly isn't. It denigrates and misrepresents any opinion that is not your own (even the status quo no. 3 option, where you represent those as cowards). Those you support, you compare the policies and personalities of the moderators on these forums (and as this appears to be specifically for EB, EB team members) to Nazis. An obvious defense of your poll is to say that it was a joke. Funny it may be, but it is nothing more than a rather obvious attack on myself and others.

If you feel that your time here on the .org is time spent within an oppressive police-state, then you are more than welcome to set up an alternative forum. I'm sure that they would be excellent and more adult addition to the group of total war fan-sites.

I am now going to close this thread as there as been no useful conversation on the topic for quite some time, and the thinly veiled and personal attack on the moderators here is not welcome.

If you feel that there is a severe and unfair attack on you or any other poster on these forums then please do take it up with the administrators of this site. I speak to TosaInu often, and I have to say that all my correspondence with him has been some of the politest I've ever had on the internet. I'm sure that he, or any of his colleagues would be happy to listen to your complaint.

However, has as been mentioned specifically many times over, these particular forums are for the discussion of Europa Barbarorum, and thus this is not a suitable area for a joke, attack or serious discussion on the rules and policies of this site and forum.

if you have any questions about my post, feel free to PM me and I'll be happy to help.

Kind Regards,