Northeastern North American Indian Warfare

**Hosakawa Tito** · 11-26-2008, 17:01

The reason I posted this is to try to expel accepted common myths about the Native Americans in this region and from the time period depicted in the game. I live in Western New York within a couple of long bowshots from the Seneca Nation "Keepers of the Western Door" of the Iroquois Confederation. I have boyhood friends and school mates who are Senecas, and have some experience with their ancient culture so I find this history very interesting personally. I never realized that they used "wooden armor" much like the Samurai or that they fought in "formations" not unlike European armies of the time period till I read this account of Samuel Champlain. I have no idea how CA will depict the Native Tribes in ETW, however I just like to know the real history behind the game and it's characters, and wanted to share that. Why did the French not emphasize colonization over maximizing short-term profit in the fur trade? Why did the Spanish not vie with the English,French, & Dutch for the mid-atlantic and new england area? How did the religious wars in Europe shape the building of global empires by the European powers? This book, Champlain's Dream: by David Hackett Fischer, and the others listed in the link help fill that knowledge of history in.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 11-26-2008, 21:09

Judging from one of the screenshots, the native American factions will fight in quite an organised fashion. It looked a bit wrong IMO, although after looking at this thread I may be wrong.

**Megas Methuselah** · 11-26-2008, 21:28

Originally Posted by Fisherking

People who still carry some of that historical fear of Indian Attack. It is in the physique.

.... What?

**PBI** · 11-26-2008, 23:34

Great find Hosa, a fascinating read.

While I fear that given the global scope of Empire there will not be time for sufficient detail on the Native Americans to truly do them justice, it could be a setting for a fantastic mod - a true EB for the New World.

**Oleander Ardens** · 11-27-2008, 12:39

Well, the European powers are both the yardstick and the knit of E:TW. Others nations should be measured on how well they compare with European prowness. Thus I hope that CA will give us a realistic and enjoyable presentation and content of the other forces in the game, and will no try too hard to "balance" units and factions. If MTWII is the benchmark, than I fear more too powerful units with too high morale.

**Fisherking** · 11-27-2008, 22:22

Originally Posted by Oleander Ardens

Well, the European powers are both the yardstick and the knit of E:TW. Others nations should be measured on how well they compare with European prowness. Thus I hope that CA will give us a realistic and enjoyable presentation and content of the other forces in the game, and will no try too hard to "balance" units and factions. If MTWII is the benchmark, than I fear more too powerful units with too high morale.

Yes a good yard stick that! The French were the great military power at the start and until the 1820s anyway.

Who won the French Iroquois War? Oh it was not the French!

How long did the Chickasaw fight the French and their allied tribes? More than 50 years, and they were still there when the French gave up West Florida.

What broke the power of the tribes was disease more than war, and that took about 300 years. So if they make them weaker than Europeans they had better have a good explanation!

**Oleander Ardens** · 11-28-2008, 00:24

Yes a good yard stick that! The French were the great military power at the start and until the 1820s anyway.

Frankly you don't seem to understand why the European powers, especially the French and the English must be the yardstick. They fought on almost all terrain covered by ETW, making them by far the best reference for CA to hone the unit stats.

Who won the French Iroquois War? Oh it was not the French!

I wonder if you actually read about the various wars between the French and their Indian allies and the Iroquois and their European allies. It is certainly an interesting chapter, but which should be discussed with proper rigour in the monestary.

It should be noted that around 1645 the Iroquois with roughly 25000-30000 members (before assimilating thousends of Hurons) massively outnumbered the French, who could count on less than 3000. They were very well supplied with guns and organized. Therefor it was mostly battled out by Iroquios and French allies. The French hat not sufficient manpower to annihilate the Iroquois and the Iroquis could not defeat the outnumbered French. Around 1700 both sides decided to make peace because the English were dangerously expanding.

How long did the Chickasaw fight the French and their allied tribes? More than 50 years, and they were still there when the French gave up West Florida.

They were still there, because the posed hardly anymore a thread, after being hit by raids and blockades. Still it should be discussed at the monastery.

What broke the power of the tribes was disease more than war, and that took about 300 years. So if they make them weaker than Europeans they had better have a good explanation!

What exactly broke the power of the various tribes can better be discussed in the monastery. Diseases, the changing balance of manpower and superior organization doomed them. Once regular troops in good numbers appeared on the battlefields of Nothern America the military tide was turned and with some notable exceptions the European powers won encounter after encounter.