10 stars - Ugly Fools

[Cute Wolf]

This was not particularly annoying problem, but can anyone help me? In most of my campaign, I usually use one or two generals who had some favourable military talent (NaturalMilitarySkill, Tactician, or Command boosting born traits), start as young as possible to lead the armies in the field, and campaigning as much as possible... usually my faction heirs, and some sort of their cousins. all the time.

Not a surprise, I had managed to get many stars on them... ussualy 7 or 8, but 10 is present. The Problem is they also got Scarred, Berserker, Butcher, and all sorts of evil traits on management and influence... In most of my campaign, in most factions, my 100 BC faction leaders is Cruelly scarred, berserkers, hates farmers, hates traders, martinet, and much worse men that will ruin my economy and public order if placed on any cities as governors... but had 9 or 10 stars... forcing them to campaign all their lives until they are dead... ( what a sad story of Military-Idiot-Savant)

My question is: What must I do to prevent my War-specialist general got these "useful in battle but pesky otherwise" traits? I just want to roleplay them to retire in their senior age (60++) peacefully, does anyone had seen 92 years old Ugly-Scarred-Fool-Butcher-Berserker-Grandpa leads full scale invasion against enemy territory, and got to slaughter every city, because he will incite riots if placed as governors?

[IrishHitman]

Just keep conquering and enslaving?
Not a long term solution, but yeah.

Train up a few management generals as well for the long term.

[Cute Wolf]

In vanilla, the generals who keep "Conquering-and-Enslaving-and-Butchering" also get some good traits on influence... at least they don't made the people explode when present to retrain their units in cities.

In EB, it was different thing... they can't got to step their feet in any town, except in my stablest city, and need to trim the tax really low... not a realistic character of a conqueror eh?

Also, even most my "Peaceful and Green" Governors didn't get much management and influence... only 3 or 4, some of them got 6 or 7, but never got 9 or 10 except when I play the Koinon and get Athenian men. (Spartans must be Brutal!!!)

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Try Qarthadastim. They always have good governors though not that good generals.

[PriestLizard]

Funny. For me, its always vice versa. My FMs usually have very high management skills, like 7-10, very good influence but have a hard time getting command stars. I think one problem is that you shouldnt keep the FMs out of cities for too long. If they have lived in war for all their lives, they wont be good governors at all. Also it will be good to have them go to school for some years.

I know I'm not much of help -- I'm still trying to figure out how to develop FMs by myself...

[Grriffon]

It can be a little annoying, but imagine the difference in a man who at a very early age was sent out to kill as many people as possible in horrible ways, and the man who stayed in school and learned the ins and outs of management.

The killer would be a pretty scary dude, and I'd be a little nervous if he was running the town too.


edit: It would be nice if you could retire them at some point though, when your triple gold chevron 10 star Seen The Elephant conquering Hero is ready to settle down ;)

[everyone]

unfortunately, my 6-star general got the "BattleWeary" trait upon defeating a Seleukid army in my Hayasdan campaign, probably because he spent most of his early life in Armavir; so I decided to retire him early. fortunately he has high management.
and I find that sometimes FMs get stars by just sitting in town for 30 years, getting GoodLeader traits randomly.

[Cute Wolf]

Nb: Some of my "Butcher Grandpa" got battle weary too... but their ancillaries and other traits seemed enough to counter these effects effectively... I think you'll got battleweary more often if you use them on advantageous / balanced battle and lost... putting yourself at small disadvantage (especially in numbers), will give them nicer traits...

Anyhow, using "Butcher Grandpa" seems to had a nice portaits of family tree, as only the most of scarred, the most berserked, and the most mad died in battle (not surprisingly)... and when they reach 65's I will pick up nice Military-talented Highschool Boy (often their nice and peaceful Grandchildren or great grandchildren...) to step on their Grandpa's madness Most of their dynasty though, worked as 1-2 starred FM with 3-5 influence and management skills...

[Onehandstan]

Bureaucrats are for peace-time, you don't want your best generals to be governing towns (unless it's until they have kids)

[Cute Wolf]

But in the real history, almost all butcher-grandpa who reach 80 years will stop fighting and retire as peaceful farmers, businessmen, or at most peaceful politician... not riding arround the battlefield shouting AMINO!!!, SIGNA FERTE!!!, TAXEIS EXITE!!!, etc!!!!, slashing enemies that should be their grandchildrens, and selling some slaves, and butchering rebels.... unrealistic, at least... it was my concern...

But a grandpa doing killing spree on the battlefield is preferable to their modern counterparts... spending their last days peacefully (but painfully) in the hospital, or senior orphanage... I remember When my highschool made a visit for an Support house for Abandoned Seniors (yes Abandoned by their family... a common problem of poor people in my country)... when I compare their conditions to my "Butcher-Grandpa" in EB... i was weep a bit After all, it was much more better drink a lot of intoxicating drinks before the battlefield, show off all the scars, and swearing "Colourful" oaths, rather than waiting the last dayys in pain and poverty...

[Tristuskhan]

Use them untill they are worn out and then send them spending the end of their life in a fort-ressort in... Baleares or Corsica (not Ireland or the steppe, definitely not). Good air and mild weather are good for their old bones.

Just don't make them faction heirs anymore.

[Ca Putt]

think of it that way: if offices are given to old veterans it's not because they will do a good job. it's a prestige thing. if one gives a government office to a old Veteran, it's always a risk because he may(or rather will) not be as good at governing a city as leading an army. And what kind of provinces are normally given to sutch Veterans? unimportant peacefull little provinces, which often is in the interest of the Veteran himself.^^
on the other hand it's a simple question of gameplay: you have to dicide, War hero or good governer.

btw, my last faction leader(he died recently) had a heck lot of butcher like traits and was a monster on the battlefield but still had some usefull traits, like mathematics etc. I would never call him the best FM ever(not even the best i ever had^^) but in the first two seasons he could get some extra money and happyness out of a settlement^^

[IrishHitman]

In vanilla, the generals who keep "Conquering-and-Enslaving-and-Butchering" also get some good traits on influence... at least they don't made the people explode when present to retrain their units in cities.

In EB, it was different thing... they can't got to step their feet in any town, except in my stablest city, and need to trim the tax really low... not a realistic character of a conqueror eh?

Also, even most my "Peaceful and Green" Governors didn't get much management and influence... only 3 or 4, some of them got 6 or 7, but never got 9 or 10 except when I play the Koinon and get Athenian men. (Spartans must be Brutal!!!)

Just post your general outside the city walls and retrain your troops that way.

[TruePraetorian]

Just post your general outside the city walls and retrain your troops that way.

Yeah, but what if he was Roman and his general got a triumphus?

[Apgad]

You could role-play it by swapping ancillary characters. It's reasonable to suppose that a 60 year old ex-army dude taking up a cushy city job wouldn't really take his spear carrier, runner, heroic saviour and armourer with him. Surely he'd pick up a few guys who actually know about managing money to assist him like clerks and merchants, as well as the odd musician and philosopher for entertainment.

You wouldn't expect that guy to fit easily into city life straight away, but I dare say that after a few years, with the right help, he'd start to get the hang of it. Remember that the personality traits that helped him get those command stars (sharp/charismatic/vigorous) should also help him pick up management scrolls and influence wreaths.

[Cute Wolf]

I try this morning on my Hayasdan campaign to swap ancillaries... that made their master "popular" good things that the grumpy grandpa Aram has been retired as butcher in his 72 years old birthday, taking a governor seat on a peaceful little town in Caucassus... After driving out most of his shrieking retinues out and transferring some good retinues from his nephews... his 16 th grandchild that only recently comes of age, Koyroun, however, takes the butchers, and become instant 6 stars general... and now he take a proud step in his grandfather's shoes..... many thanks.... i never try to swap retinues before...