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Thread: Honour vs Numerical Strength

  1. #1
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    I have seen many online players prefering numerical strength rather than honour. I have seen masses of ashigaru, monks and other rush armies all with honour 0 so that the koku increases and they can select more units.

    I personally prefer numerical strength with honour 1/2/3

    What do you like.....honour or numerical strength ?


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  2. #2
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    I'll take honor anyday, unless I'm fighting a guy with a penchant for muskets.....


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    Naughty Little Hippy Senior Member Tachikaze's Avatar
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    This dilemma is similar to the question of using gunners. If it's a sunny day, gunners kick shiri, if it rains, they are just soggy peons, and yaris would have been a better investment.

    It's all a matter of opportunity.

    If the opportunity arises when you need it, a unit with high honor is a blessing. But having a large number of troops is an advantage you can exploit in almost any game.

    In my experience so far (mind you, I'm only a "cool newbie"), I prefer numeric strength against the AI, and honor versus a human.

    "Why" you ask with anticipation? Because I can outmaneuver the AI better with a numeric superiority. The AI like to run away and hide, so I need the numbers to chase them down or surround them. Against a human, the high-quality units that seem to stay alive and keep morale for ever have a psychological effect.

    Of course, you could argue that an army that is so large it covers the countryside like a colony of ants has a psychological effect, too. And I would agree with you.

    So, my answer is numeric strength is better.

    Good question.

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    [This message has been edited by Tachikaze (edited 10-31-2000).]


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    Member Member Dwimmerlaik's Avatar
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    Hehe..give me superior numbers anyday, but given the choice I would fight with a smaller, higher honour force especially in MP coz it so much more fun to rout large armies with a small force...all those wee carcasses give me the chills.

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    Member Member BanzaiZAP's Avatar
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    Each general will have their favorite, but I like high-honor units. I'd take a higher honor no-dachi over a zero-honor monk, for example. On the other hand, I've had my high-honor butt handed to me in a platter a number of times, so my answer is more for Fun, than Profit. Like Tachikaze said, it really depends on the situation. I've honestly had one honor-two archer unit have more heads taken than two zero-honor units, so that pretty much decided it for me.

    Honor all the way!

    -- B)

    [This message has been edited by BanzaiZAP (edited 10-31-2000).]

  6. #6
    Senior Member Senior Member The Black Ship's Avatar
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    For MP I go general- high honour, attack hth units -mid-high, any ashi or Yari unit-default, and archers- honour 1 or less.

    I find I can lose any battle with this combination

    I guess if I did an analysis I'd have to say overall I go for honour.
    All we are saying....is give peas a chance - Jolly Green Giant

  7. #7
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    that's right. you can only have up to 18 (or is it 16?) units on the field at one time, and it's hell getting reinforcements when you're fleeing in droves.
    I've often shut down full-sized armies with my high-honor units and chased them off before their precious backups could even appear.
    so...50 low-grade units vs. 18 high-honor units really makes it out to be 18 low-grade vs. 18 high-grade if that's the case.


    [This message has been edited by solypsist (edited 11-01-2000).]

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    Member Member Methabaron's Avatar
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    Well, in my case its always a trade deal. Since I play mostly multiplayer my post is directed to online battles.

    I normally lean towards numbers instead of honour. A high honour unit also gets tired as any other unit, a tired unit has severe penalties. High numbers are good in this respect, with more units you can use fresh units to fight against higher honour tired units. also you can use then to flank while your opponent high honour units are already (all of them) engaged with yours...

    Lately, as initial shock troops I tend to use 2-3 Ashigaru units to tire my opponent front line (generally monks or no dachi). Once they rout my opponent front line is tired and then my elite monks/nodachi come to flank or finish off.

    Since flanking is a key tactic in this game, having superior numbers should be an important consideration before starting a battle. This is more evident in low koku battles, since in high koku ones everyone has 16 units anyways.

    Metha

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    [This message has been edited by Methabaron (edited 11-01-2000).]
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Senior Member Obake's Avatar
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    I'm with Metha on this one! (interesting new tactic btw)

    For games against the AI, I'll take honor any day.

    Most of the games I play these days though are online and I learned my lesson very hard in my second battle. I had one my first by going with honor (musta been playing another newbie). My second battle though was against a seasoned online vet and I got my head handed to me on a platter at Chikuzen. I was doing fine, quite well really, until I got flanked by some Ashi.

    Needless to say, in a straight up fight my H4 monks would have trashed them, but they were already engaged against H1 and H2 monks to the front when these H0 ashi ran right up their rear.

    When playing online, it is imperative to avoid getting flanked! To that end, lower quality and higher quantity troops will do the trick. It's still a bit of a trade-off though, in that I'll make sure that my archers are at H2 (depending on Koku value) because their accuracy can really save my hth troops some work. I also try to keep my core hth troops in the h1-h2 range (assuming a 5k koku battle). My ys's I worry less about as I use them primarily as anti-cav. My Taisho I keep at a minimum of h2 no matter what the koku level because I have found that they have a greater impact on routing troops that way. I use guns more for morale effects than anything else, so I could care less about their honor.

    Obake
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  10. #10
    Gifted Dilettante Member DragonCat's Avatar
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    Well, you have to figure out how to do BOTH.

    I usually drop the honor of my warrior monks so I can buy more of them AND more yari samurai. If I up any honor, I do it on the yari samurai first - it helps them a LOT.

    Flanking is the number one reason. You have to have enough troops to a) not get flanked yourself and b) so that you can flank your opponent if he takes too few troops.

    Secondly, if your honor is too low even with a lot of units, you may find yourself with a massive rout on your hands. Its not pretty to see all your troops leave the board early on in the game. I've had it happen.

    So, once again, the strength of this game is that there is no one right answer. It will depend, and the best place to be is with the best mix of units so you don't get caught either way.

    See you on the battlefield!


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