The Absolutely Best Heavy Cavalry in EB...

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Is the Sarmatian Bodyguard Cavalry. LOL, forget about Kataphraktoi and the likes: against a silver chevroned HA-Super Heavy Lancer Bodyguard you better run for the hills as quickly as you can before they take you and pray that you can dodge their super arrows right . I'm beginning to love Sarmatia, even though they can be damn hard at some instants.

Here's what a silver chevroned fellow can do:





I bet these guys can charge head on a full strenght Phalanx and rout them . For what I've read, it seems the Sarmatian bodyguards are the absolute kings of all Panzers bodyguard cavalry, even better than the Saka guys. I'm staying with them for now.

[gamegeek2]

Yes, the Sauromatae bodyguards are the best in the game. However, their factional units are worse than Saka's (no straight-up cataphracts). Maybe that's because I enable the recruitment of Spatahaura Hadabara in my Saka AAR, because it seemed historical to me.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Yes, the Sauromatae bodyguards are the best in the game. However, their factional units are worse than Saka's (no straight-up cataphracts). Maybe that's because I enable the recruitment of Spatahaura Hadabara in my Saka AAR, because it seemed historical to me.

Who needs Cataphracts, LOL. I think the Sarmatians are the best when they are really needed: early on, during the expansion phase. I cut down on most heavy cavalry I had and relied most on them to fight my battles, with stunning results like this. I'll check my plans, but for now a couple of "lives on the move" generals are the manstay of all my armies.

[Ignopotens]

yeah they are tanks, I love them

[Olaf Blackeyes]

A simple fact of EB
Saka and Saurtomaete bodyguards can destroy whole armies. ive played custom battles to prove this. i dont have any pics but these guys are MONSTERS on horseback

[LordCurlyton]

Don't forget the Pahlava FMs. The early ones are just as good as the Sauromatae, and the late FMs can withstand any non-AP missile fire you through at it (uber-experienced slingers notwothstanding).

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

A simple fact of EB
Saka and Saurtomaete bodyguards can destroy whole armies. ive played custom battles to prove this. i dont have any pics but these guys are MONSTERS on horseback

So true . In this particular battle they killed like 70% of the enemy losing less than 10 men. I've never ever seen that before in the whole time I played RTW. I'm hoping to get gold chevrons soon, and maybe a weapon upgrade once I conquer the local greek settlements.

[Olaf Blackeyes]

So true . In this particular battle they killed like 70% of the enemy losing less than 10 men. I've never ever seen that before in the whole time I played RTW. I'm hoping to get gold chevrons soon, and maybe a weapon upgrade once I conquer the local greek settlements.

Ok imagine this then Saka/Sauromaete bodyguards with Gold chevs gold weap AND gold armor??

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Ok imagine this then Saka/Sauromaete bodyguards with Gold chevs gold weap AND gold armor??

Alien-powered death rays from the steppes :P.

You gave me a brilliant idea for a Custom Battle! 1 Golden Saka FM vs. 20 Bataroas. Complete massacre.

[Cute Wolf]

@ Basileos Ton Elenon...
If someone play as the poor boys (only 12 of them is required in my test) that just been levied (Botroas), and he must fought total gold (3 gold chevrons, gold weap, and gold armour) Saka FM... I think experienced humans can manage to win the day...

first, put all the boys in the deep woods, make sure 8 units of them hidden, and made them into an opened box formations, the remaining four should put in each side of the box, and the nearest units will be sacrificed as a bait...

wait until your enemy run toward the nearest bait, run them in the center of the box in the forest

let the poor sacrificed boys fight for their lives for a while, after some times, charged all the boys, who is hide before, towards the saka bodyguards...... nice?

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

I was rather thinking about being the Saka FM, but thank you for the hint.

[Kuningaz]

Actually in my Sarmatian campaing, my faction leader got 3 gold chevrons, the only way to describe his power I can think of is: Chuck Norris. No, seriously he killed off 3 units of Agryaspides

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Just had a single decisive battle against Hayasdan: killed all their family members, their whole bodyguards and massacred their infantry like cattle while suffering like, less than a 100 casualties. LOL, nothing can stand a good old rain of arrows.

In my battles I generally let my light HA's shoot, then retreat them and proceed to ram the rest of the enemy with my FM's. 100% chance of heroic victory depending on the circumstances.

[gamegeek2]

9 chevrons is a piece of cake with Nomad FMs. That's a real Faction Leader.

[IrishHitman]

A simple fact of EB
Saka and Saurtomaete bodyguards can destroy whole armies. ive played custom battles to prove this. i dont have any pics but these guys are MONSTERS on horseback

One must ask is it realistic or historically correct for them to be so powerful.
I mean, Steppe tactics were brilliant, and I suspect that might have more to do with Steppe civilisation cavalry prowess than their units.

Perhaps I'm just too Celto-Greco-Roman biased.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Well given the fact that the fellows in the FM bodyguard are all of aristocratic ascendance, with the best armor, weapons and mounts coupled with the fact that they have been probably shooting a bow and riding steppe ponies before they could even walk or talk means that they are definetely better prepared than the cavalry of settled cultures.

[gamegeek2]

However, in EB their numbers are ahistorically high. That's the RTW engine's fault, though. Maybe shrink bodyguard sizes.

[IrishHitman]

Well given the fact that the fellows in the FM bodyguard are all of aristocratic ascendance, with the best armor, weapons and mounts coupled with the fact that they have been probably shooting a bow and riding steppe ponies before they could even walk or talk means that they are definetely better prepared than the cavalry of settled cultures.

True, but that does not mean that they should be entirely dominant over settled cavalry powers, melee wise. I acknowledge that the Sarm horse archers in EB are pretty much representative of what they should be, but their melee cavalry shouldn't be what it is.

If I recall Arrian's Campaigns of Alexander, the Scythians weren't particularly successful against Alexander with his excellent Persian and Macedonian cavalry, although there is certainly other factors to consider.

Gamegeek's point is also valid.
There are only so much aristocrats in the world.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

If I recall Arrian's Campaigns of Alexander, the Scythians weren't particularly successful against Alexander with his excellent Persian and Macedonian cavalry, although there is certainly other factors to consider.

Nevermind the fact that the Scythians defeated one of Alexander's generals and 30000 troops as stated by EB?

Gamegeek's point is also valid.
There are only so much aristocrats in the world.

Hmmm yes.

Actually I agree that the Nomad FM's seem grotesquely overpowered. Yet in gameplay terms they are often the salvation of Nomadic factions, who are outnumbered and outmatched in everything else by settled cultures except for their cavalry.

[IrishHitman]

Nevermind the fact that the Scythians defeated one of Alexander's generals and 30000 troops as stated by EB?

Hmmm yes.

Actually I agree that the Nomad FM's seem grotesquely overpowered. Yet in gameplay terms they are often the salvation of Nomadic factions, who are outnumbered and outmatched in everything else by settled cultures except for their cavalry.

Did the 30,000 troops include the Companion cavalry?
No... There were very few occasions where Alexander placed such a command to anyone other than himself. By the time he reached Scythian areas, the Thessalians had also been dismissed....

[Cute Wolf]

Nomad FM's are historically correct... what makes them monsters on the horseback is the fact that the Romans in later times call them monsters... monsters are represented as monsters in EB...


Fewer and weaker FM bodyguards will make the roleplaying horrible... you can't risks your FM to lead a frontal charges because they will very likely to be killed... The monstrous Saka FM is worth their crazy - near suicide - charges... but they can survive easily and win.... quite historical...
but they still can be defeated... only the stupid ai (or historically idiot strategos) let his phalangitai obliterated from the flank and not ordering troops to support them...

[Olaf Blackeyes]

Well the AI sucks so id imagine that that would happen from time to time.

[Cyrus]

I've always wondered why the AI is sooooo stupid, i mean i just had a huge heroic victory as pahlava today, with only my heir with about 60 bodyguards (huge settings) and the seleukids had something like 700 pantodapoi phalangitai wich i intercepted while they were going to persepolis, i made a massacre!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 20 casualties on my part and 691 on his, and all because right before a charge the AI "turns off" (for lack of a better term) phalanx mode.
So why is it that the rtw ai is so stupid? i mean the mtw was much smarter but that came out earyier.

[IrishHitman]

Nomad FM's are historically correct... what makes them monsters on the horseback is the fact that the Romans in later times call them monsters... monsters are represented as monsters in EB...


Fewer and weaker FM bodyguards will make the roleplaying horrible... you can't risks your FM to lead a frontal charges because they will very likely to be killed... The monstrous Saka FM is worth their crazy - near suicide - charges... but they can survive easily and win.... quite historical...
but they still can be defeated... only the stupid ai (or historically idiot strategos) let his phalangitai obliterated from the flank and not ordering troops to support them...

The Romans called them monsters because they were very much an infantry based army...
Look at who the Romans faced, the composition of their armies and the majority of their opponents.
None of them before the Parthians were true cavalry threats (with the exception of Makedonia perhaps, who used retarded tactics to defeat themselves...)

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

The Romans called them monsters because they were very much an infantry based army...
Look at who the Romans faced, the composition of their armies and the majority of their opponents.
None of them before the Parthians were true cavalry threats (with the exception of Makedonia perhaps, who used retarded tactics to defeat themselves...)

According to EB, the equestric tradition of Makedonia had ceased when the Romans came due to insufficient funding, which led the Makedonians to rely too much on the Phalanx. Also, from what I've heard Perseus fled with the heavy cavalry and let the Phalanx alone instead of charging the Romans (Pydna).

Nice story about heavy cavalry: In my very first battle in which I used Hellenikoi Kataphraktoi, I sent them around the flanks and let them charge at a loosely grouped unit of Thanvare Payahdag. I thought that would be an easy task for them, since most heavy cavalry is well able to combat these light archers on their own. But not the HK. They had battled down the archers to about 85 men (having lost ~15 at that time) when another unit of TP joined the fray, and then Hyrkanian Hillmen, and then Kamboja Asakava, and then a Seleukid General... I had sent Prodromoi for aid, but these were battled down to 10 and then routed (they too couldn't win against a single unit of TP). At this moment I was circling my right cavalry wing around the flanks (Prodromoi, Lonchophoroi and Somatophylakes), which had easily obliterated one unit of TP and one of Mardian Archers. My Katas were down to 35 at that moment. When the right wing reached the fray and routed the Seleukid crap, the HK were down to 9 riders. Later 5 recovered from their wounds.

So is that a story of bravery and proof of the worth of Hellenikoi Kataphraktoi, or is it the opposite, a proof of their inferiority to Hetairoi? What do you think?

[desert]

Seriously? I fought a unit of Spartans with some HK in a custom battle and was able to kill them all with frontal charges. I only lost 40 men, after healing.

I guess Persian archers are just better though.

[MerlinusCDXX]

@ Centurio

I'd guess it was probably the Hyrcanians that did for your Katas with their AP axes. Looks to me like your Katas were fighting mainly the archers (if I'm guessing correctly, that's the unit they were targeted on), and when the Hyrcs entered the fray, they were almost unopposed, letting them slaughter Katas at will. I'm also betting that the Archers were trying to run away from the Katas (negating the charge bonus). I've had Katas slaughtered by being bogged down myself, and they're too slow to effectively disengage from an enemy too. In fact, that's how I kill Saka FMs, 3 to 1 gangup with an AP unit charging into their backs.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Seriously? I fought a unit of Spartans with some HK in a custom battle and was able to kill them all with frontal charges. I only lost 40 men, after healing.

I guess Persian archers are just better though.

No need to get sarcastic... I guess I should have pulled them out and charged again, but I'm the "charge and kill these hillbillie archers or die trying cause you're Cataphracts after all" kind of General...

@ Centurio

I'd guess it was probably the Hyrcanians that did for your Katas with their AP axes. Looks to me like your Katas were fighting mainly the archers (if I'm guessing correctly, that's the unit they were targeted on), and when the Hyrcs entered the fray, they were almost unopposed, letting them slaughter Katas at will. I'm also betting that the Archers were trying to run away from the Katas (negating the charge bonus). I've had Katas slaughtered by being bogged down myself, and they're too slow to effectively disengage from an enemy too. In fact, that's how I kill Saka FMs, 3 to 1 gangup with an AP unit charging into their backs.

Excellent explanation! I think you're absolutely right with that. Thx

[desert]

I wasn't being sarcastic.

[Yyrkoon]

All Steppe family members are absolute gods of the battlefield. I've beaten 12:1 odds with only a family member unit. Take out the light infantry or AP units with arrows and just charge the hell out of everything else. These guys are monsters. I'm starting to love the Saka as I have a massive army of three HAs and 2FMs to take towns that I then garrison with a unit of Suebi's. By the way, why are Suebi's better than Saka foot archers when they cost the same (+2 def I think).