The Absolutely Best Heavy Cavalry in EB...

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

The Romans called them monsters because they were very much an infantry based army...
Look at who the Romans faced, the composition of their armies and the majority of their opponents.
None of them before the Parthians were true cavalry threats (with the exception of Makedonia perhaps, who used retarded tactics to defeat themselves...)

According to EB, the equestric tradition of Makedonia had ceased when the Romans came due to insufficient funding, which led the Makedonians to rely too much on the Phalanx. Also, from what I've heard Perseus fled with the heavy cavalry and let the Phalanx alone instead of charging the Romans (Pydna).

Nice story about heavy cavalry: In my very first battle in which I used Hellenikoi Kataphraktoi, I sent them around the flanks and let them charge at a loosely grouped unit of Thanvare Payahdag. I thought that would be an easy task for them, since most heavy cavalry is well able to combat these light archers on their own. But not the HK. They had battled down the archers to about 85 men (having lost ~15 at that time) when another unit of TP joined the fray, and then Hyrkanian Hillmen, and then Kamboja Asakava, and then a Seleukid General... I had sent Prodromoi for aid, but these were battled down to 10 and then routed (they too couldn't win against a single unit of TP). At this moment I was circling my right cavalry wing around the flanks (Prodromoi, Lonchophoroi and Somatophylakes), which had easily obliterated one unit of TP and one of Mardian Archers. My Katas were down to 35 at that moment. When the right wing reached the fray and routed the Seleukid crap, the HK were down to 9 riders. Later 5 recovered from their wounds.

So is that a story of bravery and proof of the worth of Hellenikoi Kataphraktoi, or is it the opposite, a proof of their inferiority to Hetairoi? What do you think?

[desert]

Seriously? I fought a unit of Spartans with some HK in a custom battle and was able to kill them all with frontal charges. I only lost 40 men, after healing.

I guess Persian archers are just better though.

[MerlinusCDXX]

@ Centurio

I'd guess it was probably the Hyrcanians that did for your Katas with their AP axes. Looks to me like your Katas were fighting mainly the archers (if I'm guessing correctly, that's the unit they were targeted on), and when the Hyrcs entered the fray, they were almost unopposed, letting them slaughter Katas at will. I'm also betting that the Archers were trying to run away from the Katas (negating the charge bonus). I've had Katas slaughtered by being bogged down myself, and they're too slow to effectively disengage from an enemy too. In fact, that's how I kill Saka FMs, 3 to 1 gangup with an AP unit charging into their backs.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Seriously? I fought a unit of Spartans with some HK in a custom battle and was able to kill them all with frontal charges. I only lost 40 men, after healing.

I guess Persian archers are just better though.

No need to get sarcastic... I guess I should have pulled them out and charged again, but I'm the "charge and kill these hillbillie archers or die trying cause you're Cataphracts after all" kind of General...

@ Centurio

I'd guess it was probably the Hyrcanians that did for your Katas with their AP axes. Looks to me like your Katas were fighting mainly the archers (if I'm guessing correctly, that's the unit they were targeted on), and when the Hyrcs entered the fray, they were almost unopposed, letting them slaughter Katas at will. I'm also betting that the Archers were trying to run away from the Katas (negating the charge bonus). I've had Katas slaughtered by being bogged down myself, and they're too slow to effectively disengage from an enemy too. In fact, that's how I kill Saka FMs, 3 to 1 gangup with an AP unit charging into their backs.

Excellent explanation! I think you're absolutely right with that. Thx

[desert]

I wasn't being sarcastic.

[Yyrkoon]

All Steppe family members are absolute gods of the battlefield. I've beaten 12:1 odds with only a family member unit. Take out the light infantry or AP units with arrows and just charge the hell out of everything else. These guys are monsters. I'm starting to love the Saka as I have a massive army of three HAs and 2FMs to take towns that I then garrison with a unit of Suebi's. By the way, why are Suebi's better than Saka foot archers when they cost the same (+2 def I think).

[MerlinusCDXX]

All Steppe family members are absolute gods of the battlefield. I've beaten 12:1 odds with only a family member unit. Take out the light infantry or AP units with arrows and just charge the hell out of everything else. These guys are monsters. I'm starting to love the Saka as I have a massive army of three HAs and 2FMs to take towns that I then garrison with a unit of Suebi's. By the way, why are Suebi's better than Saka foot archers when they cost the same (+2 def I think).

Subeshi archers do have a higher defense than the Saka foot archers, but they lack the range of Saka foot archers (209) The Subeshi's range is in line with most of the other good steppe foot archers(198), such as Scythian, Mardian, Persian Heavy, and Sauromatae. So the Subeshi archers are just good steppe foot archers with a bit more durability in melee.

[phonicsmonkey]

These guys are monsters. I'm starting to love the Saka as I have a massive army of three HAs and 2FMs to take towns that I then garrison with a unit of Suebi's.

I lost all my troops in my early expansion as Saka, since then I've relied exclusively on my stack of six Saka FMs. That one stack has completely steamrolled Pahlava and is about to turn on Baktria. They are all at three gold chevrons experience and magically regenerate between battles. Joy!

[NeoSpartan]

hum..... sounds like world of B.S to me fellas.

"triple gold chevrons".... "armor and attack upgrade, tons of command traits and whatnot". BAH! Unless you are playing VH/VH, your just exploiting the dumb AI.

When I play anything bellow VH battle difficulty:

I don't use FM with gold chevrons, once they start getting silver chev I think its time to send the FM to chill in a nice and easy town and make babies with the local women.

As for regular units, I don't retrain anybody with silver chevrons, nor do I let them get gain more, I dilute them down by joining them and rejoining them with similar units.

[phonicsmonkey]

I don't use FM with gold chevrons, once they start getting silver chev I think its time to send the FM to chill in a nice and easy town and make babies with the local women.

As for regular units, I don't retrain anybody with silver chevrons, nor do I let them get gain more, I dilute them down by joining them and rejoining them with similar units.

I don't have any other troops to use, I blitzed like crazy, lost everything except my FMs.

Try stopping those Saka FMs from getting gold XP! They kill so many they get there in three or four battles..

Like you, I don't retrain my troops, I only merge them with fresh recruits.

[Arutima]

the nomad Fm are indeed beasts.

Also, don't forget pahlava's Fm , early and late version. And elite late cataphracts. Pictures related

[Maestro Ugo]

All Steppe family members are absolute gods of the battlefield. I've beaten 12:1 odds with only a family member unit. Take out the light infantry or AP units with arrows and just charge the hell out of everything else. These guys are monsters. I'm starting to love the Saka as I have a massive army of three HAs and 2FMs to take towns that I then garrison with a unit of Suebi's. By the way, why are Suebi's better than Saka foot archers when they cost the same (+2 def I think).

I had a similar game a while back with Saka, my army consisted mostly of FMs, and an odd horse archer or noble here and there. The problem is that after the "march of time" your FMs suddenly lose the ability to shoot missiles. That is very unfortunate indeed...

[IrishHitman]

According to EB, the equestric tradition of Makedonia had ceased when the Romans came due to insufficient funding, which led the Makedonians to rely too much on the Phalanx. Also, from what I've heard Perseus fled with the heavy cavalry and let the Phalanx alone instead of charging the Romans (Pydna).

That's what I was talking about by retarded tactics.