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  1. #1
    German Enthusiast Member Alexanderofmacedon's Avatar
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    Default Re: terror on the rise?

    First off: The BJP takes extreme measures and is often NOT scrupulous dealing with Islamic groups, but saying they are trying to convert everyone is idiotic considering conversion to Hinduism isn't really "allowed".

    Second off: I'm not saying anything is right or wrong in terms of the Kashmir conflict. I have my personal opinions (and if they showed it was not my intention). My intention was to show it is still a religious conflict despite what you may think.

    Now begins putting words in my mouth... I never once said that all Muslims were terrorists or anything remotely similar. In fact there are around 200 million Muslims that live in India, and the majority of them live quite peacefully. Hell, during the terrorist attacks this past weekend we had Hindu, Sikh, and Islamic troops combat terrorists. They are no less Indians than Hindus.

    Leet: Your exaggerations about the BJP aren't going to get you anywhere. First of all, it's led by Rajnath Singh, who is a Sikh. And yes, the BJP finally protects the rights of Hindus. Muslims have been destroying Hindu temples for hundreds of years (and that gives no right to destroy theirs) and WE deserve to have OUR religion respected. That isn't to say their tactics are right, though...

    EDIT: http://www.bjp.org/philo.htm - Read it. "The BJP has also invited Muslims to be a part of this new society and work with the Hindus, Buddhists, Jains and Sikhs for a better India"

    "We must look after the Muslims and treat them as part of us"
    Last edited by Alexanderofmacedon; 12-01-2008 at 01:33.


  2. #2

    Default Re: terror on the rise?

    The loony bun is fine.

  3. #3
    AKA Leif 3000 TURBO Senior Member Leet Eriksson's Avatar
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    Default Re: terror on the rise?

    You might as well tell me to go fact finding about hizbullah on their own website.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200811u/mumbai


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Heavily armed, hooded gunmen have killed more than 100 people and wounded more than 300 in Mumbai in coordinated attacks against two five-star hotels, the city’s largest train station, a movie theater, a hospital, and a Jewish center. Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said in a televised address that the attackers had “external linkages,” an indication that Pakistan and perhaps al-Qaeda, too, would be blamed for the attack. It is clearly possible that the terror rampage had its origins outside India, aimed as they were at international rather than Hindu targets. But in a least one sense it doesn’t matter. For the attacks will aggravate a growing fault line between Hindus and Muslims within India itself.

    India is home to 154 million Muslims, the third largest Muslim population in the world after Indonesia and Pakistan. Tolerable inter-communal relations are the sine qua non of Indian stability and ascendancy. India has more to lose from extremist Islam than arguably any other country in the world. The Mumbai terrorists announced themselves as the Deccan Mujahideen. The Deccan is a rugged plateau region in south-central India that Aurangzeb, the fierce Sunni emperor of the Mughals (India’s most historically significant Muslim dynasty) could never subdue and in fact died trying in 1707. The Islamic Mughals vanquished all of northern India, Pakistan, and a good part of Afghanistan, but they could never consolidate the Deccan against the Hindu Maratha warriors. This Mughal history has taken on heightened symbolism in India in recent years precisely as a result of globalization and the expansion of electronic communications and education, all of which have sharpened the country’s religious divide.

    Let me explain.

    In the early Cold War decades, India’s ruling Congress Party, the party of independence, sought to unite both Hindus and Muslims under the umbrella of a shared community and new nation-state. It worked, more or less, until the 1970s, when Prime Minister Indira Gandhi enacted dictatorial emergency decrees that erased much of the romantic sheen from Congress’s image. New imagined communities then started to form. In the 1980s, and particularly in the 1990s, with the opening up of the Indian economy to the outside world, Indians, especially the new Hindu middle class, began a search for roots to anchor them inside an insipid world civilization that they were joining as a result of their new economic status. This enhanced status, by the way, gave them new insecurities, as they suddenly had wealth to protect.

    Consequently, we had the rise of the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (Indian People’s Party, or BJP). The BJP is one of several Hindu nationalist organizations that promotes a revisionist view of Indian history, in which the Mughals and other Muslim dynasties of the medieval and early modern era (which helped create India’s dazzlingly syncretic civilization - but who also brought terrible depredations upon the Hindus) are considered interlopers in what should have remained a purely Hindu civilization and story-line. Mass communications have helped Hindus in this historical journey, enabling the creation of a standardized and ideologized Hinduism out of many local variants. It goes without saying that a similar process simultaneously occurred within parts of the Indian Muslim community, who joined a world Muslim civilization that competed with Indian nationalism for their loyalty. Bottom line: this is not an ancient historical divide so much as a recreated modern one.

    The divide exploded in full force in February and March 2002 in the northwestern province of Gujarat. Following the massacre of 58 Hindus on a train, Muslim areas of Gujarat, and particularly neighborhoods in its largest cities, were besieged by Hindu mobs: hundreds of Muslim women were raped, more than a thousand were killed, and 200,000 were made homeless. The Hindu nationalist BJP government in Gujarat was implicated in the killings, and because there was never an official apology for what happened, the atrocities have lived on in infamy, becoming a symbol for both groups in India.

    With this background – and I have provided only the most rudimentary chronicle – the immediate result of the Mumbai terror attacks will be a further hardening of inter-communal relations within India. The latest attacks will also increase the likelihood that in national elections slated for early 2009, the result will be a BJP-led government, as Hindus, who comprise the overwhelming majority of Indian voters, take on another layer of insecurity.

    Internationally, this event will further aggravate Indian-Pakistani relations, making it harder for the incoming Obama Administration to effect a rapprochement between the two countries, necessary for progress in Afghanistan, where the two subcontinental states are engaged in a proxy struggle that goes on behind the immediate conflict between the United States and al-Qaeda.

    But the real story is India itself, whose undeniable rise as a major world power is being threatened by these civilizational tensions.

    I have just spent a month reporting in Gujarat on Hindu-Muslim relations, and will have much more to say on the subject in the future.


    Bolded relevant lines cause thats what it really is all about, socio-political problems based on artificial and bunk historical beliefs and ideologies, you really can't get worse than this as far as the incompetence of the indian government.
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  4. #4
    Formerly: SwedishFish Member KarlXII's Avatar
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    Default Re: terror on the rise?

    Weren't they involved the the destruction of a Mosque a while back?
    HOW ABOUT 'DEM VIKINGS
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    AKA Leif 3000 TURBO Senior Member Leet Eriksson's Avatar
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    Default Re: terror on the rise?

    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishFish View Post
    Weren't they involved the the destruction of a Mosque a while back?
    No, it was done by a mob of hindu nationalists. Though this is what sparked the divide between hindus and muslims generally.

    EDIT: The bjp congratulated them later though.
    Last edited by Leet Eriksson; 12-01-2008 at 03:34.
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    German Enthusiast Member Alexanderofmacedon's Avatar
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    Default Re: terror on the rise?

    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishFish View Post
    Weren't they involved the the destruction of a Mosque a while back?
    Yeah it was in 1992. Caused some nasty riots. Sad thing, and stupid to do.


  7. #7
    Formerly: SwedishFish Member KarlXII's Avatar
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    Default Re: terror on the rise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexanderofmacedon View Post
    Yeah it was in 1992. Caused some nasty riots. Sad thing, and stupid to do.
    And they're talking about acceptance
    HOW ABOUT 'DEM VIKINGS
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  8. #8
    German Enthusiast Member Alexanderofmacedon's Avatar
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    Default Re: terror on the rise?

    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishFish View Post
    And they're talking about acceptance
    Most parties are like that. Most politicians, actually. Some systems that's how you get things done though. A shame really.


  9. #9
    Formerly: SwedishFish Member KarlXII's Avatar
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    Default Re: terror on the rise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexanderofmacedon View Post
    Most parties are like that. Most politicians, actually. Some systems that's how you get things done though. A shame really.
    What?

    Oh, and get this, after tearing down a Muslim Mosque, they built the Ram Janmabhoomi temple it just keeps getting better.
    HOW ABOUT 'DEM VIKINGS
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