Units: speculation, rumor, slander and silliness

[Martok]

Gentlemen, if you're going to discuss historical matters, please do so in the Monastery.


I've been curious about whether factions who have colonies in North America will be able to recruit native Indian troops to supplement their regular forces. Perhaps only on a mercenary basis?

[Sheogorath]

Eh? ._.
I'd think that some discussion of history would be inevitable and unavoidable in this topic. Considering the subject matter is directly linked...

Anyway...I'd HOPE that we would see some actual formal native units, but I doubt it. Most likely, as you said, we'll get mercenary natives.

I just hope that we don't end up with crazy horse-riding, Apache-clone Iroquois

[Polemists]

I just hope that we don't end up with crazy horse-riding, Apache-clone Iroquois

While I do agree with that I do hope the natives have something similar to the Warpath function, where they unite together and drive towards a single point. Maybe targets given by a council of tribes or something.

I mean it will get rather boring if we just pick of individual natives one by one. I'm hoping they have some sort of faction, defense functionality.

Like hey we are all getting wiped out by france, from armies coming out of Lousiana, let's unite and take out Louisana, type thing.

[Fisherking]

While I do agree with that I do hope the natives have something similar to the Warpath function, where they unite together and drive towards a single point. Maybe targets given by a council of tribes or something.

I mean it will get rather boring if we just pick of individual natives one by one. I'm hoping they have some sort of faction, defense functionality.

Like hey we are all getting wiped out by france, from armies coming out of Lousiana, let's unite and take out Louisana, type thing.

Look, I have no idea how it should be done in a game, but North America was not Europe. Movement was slow and mostly by water, using Native technology. European methods broke down quickly and the Tribes learned fast.

When the French went to war with the Fox (not exactly a huge tribe) they didn’t manage to wipe them out. The Fox cannon proofed their villages and withstood the French and drove them out (presumably with the aid of the Sauk and Sioux). But countering cannon is no mean feat! (they must have been wonderful diggers)

It was pretty much the other way around. The Europeans were in much more danger of being wiped out by the Tribes. That is why the English did so much to cultivate friendship with the Iroquois. They had already fought the French to a standstill and wiped out several of their allied Tribes. The English were close to loosing the French and Indian War until they got the Iroquois to enter the war on their side.

The great French victory over the Natchez was actually a Choctaw victory where the French were present. The French almost lost Fort Detroit to the Fox, only the timely arrival of a strong relief force saved it, and they lost a couple of forts to the Mohawk, as well as having settlements sacked and burned.

It was a different Theater with different tactics needed because of the environment. Diplomacy , Trade, and Gifts were the keys to keeping the Tribes on your side, and without their aid you just were not going to succeed. Indian Wars usually lasted until the Europeans could manage a peace agreement and never hurt the Indians that much until after the American Revolution. At best they ended in a draw.

Isn't that similar to what Tecumseh did? If he had survived the war of 1812, he might've gone on to achieve great things, ie. a union of Native American tribes. Although this is somewhat ahead of the game's timeframe, I see why reason as to why this couldn't happen at an earlier date.

It will depend on how the Diplomacy is set up for the Tribes, but yes it would be fun to see. Especially if they are moded for human players.

It is a lot of what if after all!

[Polemists]

I wasn't saying the Natives had to be like Europeans or that they had to do a certain function.

I was simply stating how I hoped they would not become the new bandit/rebel entity of ETW, basically a bunch of push overs.

If European powers start to steam roll over them, I'd think it would be pretty logical for them to go, hey let's get together. Just like if they steam rolled over Euro's i'd think the opposite would hold true.

Yes Indian war is fascinating but just not sure how much or little of it CA will put in. Judging by how historic it is, and the fact it has a movie, it will probably at very least recieve a cursory mention.

[Oleander Ardens]

Generic "Indian" units:


Warrior (focus melee) with a bow
Skirmisher with Bow
Skirmisher with Musket
Elite Skirmisher with Bow
Elite Skirmisher with Musket


@Fisherking

While I appreciate your efforts for the Native Americans, you portray quite an one-sided picture of the situation. Comments like are sadly far from true for this timeframe:

It was pretty much the other way around. The Europeans were in much more danger of being wiped out by the Tribes. That is why the English did so much to cultivate friendship with the Iroquois. They had already fought the French to a standstill and wiped out several of their allied Tribes. The English were close to loosing the French and Indian War until they got the Iroquois to enter the war on their side.

At that time the European settlers in Britsh North America were roughly short of a million, controlling large swaths of lands conquered from destroyed/drive out tribes. New French was populated just by 50000. The Iroquois were important, adding a rather large amount of capable warriors and scouts, but certainly not a decisive one.

It was a different Theater with different tactics needed because of the environment. Diplomacy , Trade, and Gifts were the keys to keeping the Tribes on your side, and without their aid you just were not going to succeed. Indian Wars usually lasted until the Europeans could manage a peace agreement and never hurt the Indians that much until after the American Revolution. At best they ended in a draw.

Saying that the wars against the Europeans did not hurt much is quite a thing to say, considering all the land lost and all the vanished tribes already around 1750. A terrible "draw" for many Indian tribes indeed...

[Mailman653]

And now for something completely different:

Black Soldiers and Sailors During the Revolution
It mentions soldiers serving in either mixed or colored regiments for both American and British armies/navies.

The speculation part is, will they have to be modded in or would they have some representation in the game?

[Fisherking]

History as it relates to the Game:

The only Native American Tribe east of the Mississippi River noted for their horses were the Choctaws but they didn’t ride into battle, they fought on foot, even though they may have been one of the first tribes to acquire horses.

I don’t recall seeing a map of the North American Theater so I don’t know how far west it goes. But naturally the South Plains is where you will find the earliest horsemen. The Comanche, Kiowa, and various Apaches may have had horses in 1700 but Sioux were still pedestrian woodland people at the start of the game.

It would be an acquired technology I suppose.

[Megas Methuselah]

While I do agree with that I do hope the natives have something similar to the Warpath function, where they unite together and drive towards a single point. Maybe targets given by a council of tribes or something.

I mean it will get rather boring if we just pick of individual natives one by one. I'm hoping they have some sort of faction, defense functionality.

Like hey we are all getting wiped out by france, from armies coming out of Lousiana, let's unite and take out Louisana, type thing.

While my knowledge of this era is somewhat fuzzy, and due to the fact that I am falling asleep right now, it is a likely possibility that the following statements are somewhat misleading or downright false, and should, in fact, no way be taken as solid truth.

Isn't that similar to what Tecumseh did? If he had survived the war of 1812, he might've gone on to achieve great things, ie. a union of Native American tribes. Although this is somewhat ahead of the game's timeframe, I see why reason as to why this couldn't happen at an earlier date.