Navigable Rivers?

[Puupertti Ruma]

At least in RTW the roads are generated automatically by the game, and cannot be manually put anywhere by the modders. The same effect could nonetheless obtained with a terrain type called e.g. "river bank" which would have a lot smaller movement cost than other terrains. So, moving by riverbanks would be faster without the need for invisible roads.

[Celtic_Punk]

If any river should be navigable, it should be the Nile. I'd be happy with just the Nile. OoooOooOo the possibilities! >:) look out Ptolemy! here I come!

[a completely inoffensive name]

At least in RTW the roads are generated automatically by the game, and cannot be manually put anywhere by the modders.

Is that true for M2TW as well?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Is that true for M2TW as well?

Yes. It is, afterall, basically the same game engine.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I just thought maybe the improved engine allowed roads on the campaign map to be modded.

[Megas Methuselah]

The same effect could nonetheless obtained with a terrain type called e.g. "river bank" which would have a lot smaller movement cost than other terrains. So, moving by riverbanks would be faster without the need for invisible roads.

Is that even possible?

[a completely inoffensive name]

If you create the new terrain, I think so.

[Megas Methuselah]

If you create the new terrain, I think so.

But can you create new terrain?

[a completely inoffensive name]

But can you create new terrain?

The same effect could nonetheless obtained with a terrain type called e.g. "river bank" which would have a lot smaller movement cost than other terrains. So, moving by riverbanks would be faster without the need for invisible roads.

Apparently.

[Puupertti Ruma]

I don't know if you can create new terrain, but I am pretty sure that you can retexture old terrain, choose where that terrain is drawns on the map and modify it's movement penalty (well, in RTW you can at least). What I don't know for sure if you can rename terrain.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Isn't there two types of terrain that isn't used? Or maybe I am thinking of the RS textures.

[Megas Methuselah]

I don't know if you can create new terrain, but I am pretty sure that you can retexture old terrain, choose where that terrain is drawns on the map and modify it's movement penalty (well, in RTW you can at least). What I don't know for sure if you can rename terrain.

Hey, that's pretty ground-breaking, Puupertti! But I doubt anything like this will happen. As cool as navigable rivers may seem, Marcus had a point in his earlier post:

Rivers will most likely not be navigable, especially if they look weird/ugle, like a deep narrow bay.

However, who's to say the terrain around normal rivers shouldn't be given movement penalties by themselves? That would be especially realistic and helpful, as you wouldn't have to entirely rely on roads alone for movement penalties. It also reduces the importance of roads, and makes it seem more practical to simply not build roads in river-rich provinces!

[Cambyses]

For those asking for proof of whether warships ever actually sailed on these rivers, I wouldnt know for anywhere in the East, but certainly there were battles on the Nile in ancient times. Thucydides gives a decent account of such an event re the Athenian expedition in the mid 4th century BC. In the North, then the Vikings can provide sufficient evidence of which rivers were navigable by ocean going ships - although of course their ships were relatively "flat" in comparison to others.

This would add another interesting dimension to the game but it does raise a few questions for me.

1. How would the AI handle it?
2. Can a river be navigable and still have bridges/fords?
3. Are bridges over certain rivers meant to be realistic or actually just representative of ferries?
4. Can river access be limited to certain types of ships?
5. If this would require a lot of work, would it be worth it?

[Ludens]

1. How would the AI handle it?
2. Can a river be navigable and still have bridges/fords?
3. Are bridges over certain rivers meant to be realistic or actually just representative of ferries?
4. Can river access be limited to certain types of ships?
5. If this would require a lot of work, would it be worth it?

Viking longboats are not comparable to triremes, so their example doesn't count. The lower Nile certainly was navigable by triremes and bigger, though.

1) It will simply treat the rivers as sea. It probably won't understand that it can be blocked by putting a ship there, but it doesn't understand how to block mountain passes either.
2) No. Well, technically, the team can create landbridges like for example at Byzantion, but I suspect that will require the river to take an odd shape.
3) Both, I suspect. I don't think there were bridges over the Rhine and lower Danube until the Romans built them. In any case, there would have been more crossing points, so these must have been the ones big enough for an army,
4) No.
5) No, but it would make the rivers look weird and be uncrossable for armies.