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I think computer viruses should count as life. I think it says something about human nature that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. We've created life in our own image. - Stephen Hawking
Bohr atom, anyone
Bovi nicely posted, replacing my need to respond (thanks!)... better phrased than i would have too
it's not like i disbelieve scientific theory as a good thing, but new science is far from certain was my point.
Last edited by blitzkrieg80; 12-04-2008 at 19:39.
HWÆT !
“Vesall ertu þinnar skjaldborgar!” “Your shieldwall is pathetic!” -Bǫðvar Bjarki [Hrólfs Saga Kraka]
“Wyrd oft nereð unfǽgne eorl þonne his ellen déah.” “The course of events often saves the un-fey warrior if his valour is good.” -Bēowulf
“Gørið eigi hárit í blóði.” “Do not get blood on [my] hair.” -Sigurð Búason to his executioner [Óláfs Saga Tryggvasonar: Heimskringla]
Wes þū hāl ! Be whole (with luck)!
At the very second it is disproven.
Seriously though, once a hypothesis becomes a theory it's so strongly backed by evidence that the burden of proof practically switches.
Not quite. For one thing it was never a scientific theory that the world is flat. I believe what you should rather say is "if a hypothesis is never questioned...". That's not the same thing, because a theory has been so thoroughly tested and proved already you can safely rely on them. If not, you can test it yourself if you want to, but its really not necessary. Scientists are already doing that, and have been doing that for a very long time.Originally Posted by Bovi
But that's false. If there is anything that you can be certain of, it would be a scientific fact.Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg80
Do you have any evidence to support this? I'm kind of sceptical, seeing as disproving something that is considered a scientific theory will pretty much guarantee you a million dollars and the Nobel Prize, and that will give your career all the boost you could wish for.Originally Posted by Cmaq
Some may have only a peripheral association with applied science, as I on the other hand, do not. By all means, not to make this personal, yet if one works in a profession that is considered a science, and wants a long and fruitful career, one may do well to heed my words. Disproving a fellow’s theory only earns you enemies. Evidence, you need not go far to find evidence, actually you should provide evidence otherwise, of course with the exception of doctors associated with drug manufacture, most medical science is exempted.
CmacQ
Last edited by cmacq; 12-04-2008 at 22:00.
quae res et cibi genere et cotidiana exercitatione et libertate vitae
Herein events and rations daily birth the labors of freedom.
So you believe that there is no theory in the history of science that has not been proven wrong? A scientific theory is not absolute truth, although it carries an amount of truthiness which makes it seem right until someone comes up with the right experiment to prove it wrong. How about the atomicity of the atom, for instance? Wasn't that a scientific theory, until it was, well, amply proven wrong? Note: Some Nobel prizes were gained through this, of course. If you think that somehow that should make your statement that theories are facts correct.
You seem to say that the second that a theory is disproven, it never was a scientific theory in the first place? That's a weird definition. No, we cannot take theories as facts. If everyone were to do so, we'd never get any new knowledge.
Last edited by bovi; 12-04-2008 at 22:01.
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I do NOT answer PM requests for help with EB. Ask in a new help thread in the tech help forum.
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I think computer viruses should count as life. I think it says something about human nature that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. We've created life in our own image. - Stephen Hawking
ah finally something I as a novice scientist can talk about
the scientific method is indeed the best way to look at something sadly since the privation of science it is very bad for scientist to say they are wrong
it used to be hard but now it is impossible to say about a popular theory that they are wrong
for example the big-bang theory
many respected and renowned scientists have openly said that the big-bang theory is an absolute truth(rule number 1 in science: NOTHING is ever considered true truth until proving otherwise(which is until you have seen and tested everything!) there is only a high possibility of something being truth) there is a dutch profesor who has tried to post articles and pictures of clusters of stars in science magazines that contradict the big bang
he has never been published and everyone says that he is wrong and that the pictures are a result of fault equipment,
just because there is so much money in it, scientist who make mistakes lose heaps of money and that can't happen nowadays anymore
now I don't say he is wrong or right but is just say prove it
prove he is wrong, if they are so sure of it THAT is scientific method
I may be zealous about this, butt goddammit scientific method is one of the factors that made science big and fast
if we lose this we come back to a halt
and I am sure that the EB team agrees with me seeing their huge need for unmistakable evidence and thats a good thing so we now that at least that is true
Gah! First of all, yes, this should have been a different thread. It was wrong of me to derail the other, and for that, I am sorry. I only meant it to be a sidenote. In any case, there was no need to create a new thread about this, really, so for my part this can just be closed and forgotten. I'll answer what has already been said as best as I can though, trying not to incite further discussion.
I don't take it personal as long as you don't make it so. You haven't, so no worries about that. I freely admit that I, myself, am not a scientist. I haven't worked too much with science itself, which I don't doubt you have.Originally Posted by Cmaq
However, I have spoken real scientists, and it is on what they have said that I've base everything I've said here.
Of course not, that's not what I've been saying. All I've been saying is that it's still the best we have.Originally Posted by bovi
I haven't said theories are facts, au contraire. They're better than facts, because facts are just observations.Originally Posted by bovi
But I get what you mean, though you're misunderstanding me. What I've been saying is that theories are so good because they've got so much evidence backing them up and none against them.
Last edited by The Celtic Viking; 12-04-2008 at 23:03.
Well then, I shall invite you to Arizona so that you may work first hand in Archaeology for five days. We do two public archaeology projects every year; one in March and the other in October, both cool weather times here. That is, relatively cool weather times. The project initially slated for last October was postponed until the first week in February of next year, this due to my colleague, friend, and field partners unfortunately fall from his roof while wearing his hippie sandals. Partially, he landed on the ladder and broke his right caleaneus into one big and about 29 smaller pieces. Or was it his left? Not to worry he'll be up and about soon. Any way, after being immersed for a week I’m sure you’ll have a greater appreciation of the way the scientific method actually works. Right, as this PIT project will be in what we call the Thumb (east central uplands) and it will be early February, day time temps may be very cool and the nights below freezing. Wear something warm, but not too warm.
CmacQ
Last edited by cmacq; 12-05-2008 at 06:33.
quae res et cibi genere et cotidiana exercitatione et libertate vitae
Herein events and rations daily birth the labors of freedom.
I guess there is a tiny difference between "you can safely rely on" and "you can be certain of". It's pretty close though, and you said one about theory and the other about fact. I took a tiny jump to think you equated them.
In the end, I think we end up with that scientific theory is the hypothesis that is yet to be disproven, with the addendum that it has stayed that way for a long time.
Edit: Oh, and there's no need for a lock. I moved this discussion out so it wouldn't interfere with the other in that thread.
Last edited by bovi; 12-05-2008 at 10:45.
Having problems getting EB2 to run? Try these solutions.
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I do NOT answer PM requests for help with EB. Ask in a new help thread in the tech help forum.
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I think computer viruses should count as life. I think it says something about human nature that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. We've created life in our own image. - Stephen Hawking
Technically, the concept of the scientific theory was invented after the scientific method was invented. Scientific theories are terms used for modern science that has undergone the scientific method.
There are no facts in science. Even the scientific laws are not "facts." Laws are generalized statements based on the theories. Everything could be proven wrong tomorrow...but it's probability. It is highly unlikely that the theory of relativity or theory of universal gravitation or theory of natural selection is wrong - mainly because evidence has been continuous mounting in its support.
Last edited by Intranetusa; 12-05-2008 at 19:48.
The above is all very well stated, indeed. And, if no one minds I could provide a number of interesting examples, in part from personal experience, of how the application of the scientific method can work well and how it can go so very wrong. At the very least, some may find these revelations entertaining. As this forum offers a certain degree of anonymity, and the case-studies are rather obscure topics, for the most part, there is little chance of repercussion. Actually, I rehashed one-such case earlier today.
CmacQ
Last edited by cmacq; 12-06-2008 at 04:45.
quae res et cibi genere et cotidiana exercitatione et libertate vitae
Herein events and rations daily birth the labors of freedom.
Having problems getting EB2 to run? Try these solutions.
================
I do NOT answer PM requests for help with EB. Ask in a new help thread in the tech help forum.
================
I think computer viruses should count as life. I think it says something about human nature that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. We've created life in our own image. - Stephen Hawking
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