Did you help ruin the world?

[ICantSpellDawg]

The English are obsessed with us. They are American citizens without voting rights. It really burns their crumpets that we didn't fight harder in the revolution and take them with us.

[Drisos]

Climate change is not Bush' fault. It's just a problem caused by billions of our kind on this earth. It's just way too much. If we'd rapidly decrease in numbers environmental problems would decrease along.

Planting some extra trees here and there or having the industry let out 10% less Co2 isn't going to help at all. Those things are just to keep the people happy and not too much worried about the climate.

[KarlXII]

The English are obsessed with us. They are American citizens without voting rights. It really burns their crumpets that we didn't fight harder in the revolution and take them with us.

Yeah.....that's it.....exactly....right on.

[Idaho]

The English are obsessed with us. They are American citizens without voting rights. It really burns their crumpets that we didn't fight harder in the revolution and take them with us.

Not quite. What we see in America is an over optimistic child of a nation, with more power than responisbility and the usual imperial human accounting that sees one american worth a hundred foreigners.

We made those same mistakes before you and see clearly the path you will too walk down.

[Strike For The South]

Not quite. What we see in America is an over optimistic child of a nation, with more power than responisbility and the usual imperial human accounting that sees one american worth a hundred foreigners.

We made those same mistakes before you and see clearly the path you will too walk down.

And the world is still here. As much as I would like to believe it, the USA doesn't have the power to destroy 5,000 years of civilization much less one man with a divided government. Its a sign of the times really. Everyone thinks there in some big period of human upheaval. Makes them feel all important

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

FDRs economic policies are very debatable

1. The economy had nowhere to go but up. Now did FDR help it go higher? Maybe. But what CA fails to mention is that even with all that wonderful intervention and growth the economy still took at sharp downturn in 37-38 and American unemployment rose and the stock market fell. Then right when we looked to be headed right back to where we started, Hitler invaded Poland.

2. FDR did nothing to help the Ag business. As usual the yankee and rustbelt industrialists got all the handouts and money while the plains were left to rot. The dust bowl is not hit hard enough in American cannon. Its impact on the economy and the lives of those people are an absolute horror story. Not to mention these people were treated like carp everywhere they went.

3. Having said all this FDR was a power hungry demagogue. A man out for his own name and power. A truly despicable man to be completely honest. Hitler saved the man and thats really a shame.

[CountArach]

1. The economy had nowhere to go but up. Now did FDR help it go higher? Maybe. But what CA fails to mention is that even with all that wonderful intervention and growth the economy still took at sharp downturn in 37-38 and American unemployment rose and the stock market fell. Then right when we looked to be headed right back to where we started, Hitler invaded Poland.

37-38 was one of the more Conservative parts of FDRs administration where he concentrated more on balancing the budget and cutting spending. After he injected more capital into the market the economy began to recover again.

2. FDR did nothing to help the Ag business. As usual the yankee and rustbelt industrialists got all the handouts and money while the plains were left to rot. The dust bowl is not hit hard enough in American cannon. Its impact on the economy and the lives of those people are an absolute horror story. Not to mention these people were treated like carp everywhere they went.

I'll admit that he didn't do much for farmers, though he did try. The problem was that the farmers were not willing to work on collectivised farms, which is fair enough I suppose.

3. Having said all this FDR was a power hungry demagogue. A man out for his own name and power. A truly despicable man to be completely honest. Hitler saved the man and thats really a shame.

... ummm...?

well of course it helped from the depression, but it was ENDED by WWII.

Then what is your point?

[Yoyoma1910]

Can't we all just agree to put the blame on our parents.





Then we could create a world like Logan's Run.

[Husar]

So America had presidents before Clinton?

[Hooahguy]

Then what is your point?

dunno. just was dispelling the thought that FDRs programs was the thing that ended the GD.

[KarlXII]

dunno. just was dispelling the thought that FDRs programs was the thing that ended the GD.

We entered the War in 1941, the Depression was largely over by the Polish Invasion.

Oh, is it because he was a Democrat?

[Strike For The South]

We entered the War in 1941, the Depression was largely over by the Polish Invasion.

Oh, is it because he was a Democrat?

No it wasnt and no its not.

[Hooahguy]

We entered the War in 1941, the Depression was largely over by the Polish Invasion.

Oh, is it because he was a Democrat?

nope. there was still a 14.6 unemployment rate. with WWII, it was shot down by the draft.
maybe if we had a draft today....

[Strike For The South]

37-38 was one of the more Conservative parts of FDRs administration where he concentrated more on balancing the budget and cutting spending. After he injected more capital into the market the economy began to recover again.

You mean like when he told the FBI to dig up dirt on big business because they were causing the recession? Or how magically when the AFL and CIO stopped striking and started fighting business suddenly went back into an upswing? The US owes its enormous debt to this man, nothing else.

Median unemployment never went below 14% the New Deal and all of Roosevelt's grandeur is a myth

Facts Figures

admit that he didn't do much for farmers, though he did try. The problem was that the farmers were not willing to work on collectivised farms, which is fair enough I suppose.

He did nothing. He let the real cause of the depression wither and die while he pandered to the urban centers. I wasn't aware the feds tried to collectivize farms. I am aware they bought up cattle and offered to plant trees and told the farmers to conserve the soil (which may be the two stupidest suggestions to ever come out of anyones mouth)

.. ummm...?

-The expanded the power of the presdinet to a king-like level (still is)
-He broke precedent by running for more than two terms (little demagouge....allot of New Yorkers do this)
-When the supreme court wouldn't bend to his wishes he tried simply to add more justices
-He intered US citizens
-He was a fascist

[LittleGrizzly]

Struggling to remember now but he did for cotton it may have been, he ordered the destruction of alot of crops so the remaining crops would rise in value

I don't really get the tree planting thing... for wood perhaps... can't really say im against tree planting, but if the products had dropped dramatically in value and allowing a field to lay fallow for a season or two does improve the soil then that suggestion isn't really so stupid...

I am suspicious of conservative views on FDR, i can't help myself im a cynic, but the man who made the goverment grow so much is bound to be hated by conservatives which could lead some cynics to disregard conservative viewpoints on fdr somewhat....

[JR-]

Not quite. What we see in America is an over optimistic child of a nation, with more power than responisbility and the usual imperial human accounting that sees one american worth a hundred foreigners.

We made those same mistakes before you and see clearly the path you will too walk down.

you do not speak for us all. :)

[ICantSpellDawg]

Not quite. What we see in America is an over optimistic child of a nation, with more power than responisbility and the usual imperial human accounting that sees one american worth a hundred foreigners.

We made those same mistakes before you and see clearly the path you will too walk down.

Right. As Englishmen, you have somehow lived longer than Americans and personally viewed historical occurrences through the ages. You clearly have a stronger and more mature government than we do.

Worth is relative. I'm the one suggesting that we send out troops to other nations because human life is human life no matter where it is. You are the one suggesting because we have done just that that we are ruining the world.

Re-consider the patronage point of view. You are just as old as we are on an individual level, have read the same books, and have a government that successfully governs 56 million (rather ethnically heterogeneous) citizenry.

We, even more successfully, govern 300 million people with a much more extreme cultural divide. You have around 1/5th the amount of people who have much more in common culturally. We even beat you slightly in per capita GDP by most standards.

Don't lecture us as some sort of a father figure. Get off of your high horse.

Would anyone argue that American internationalism has been as ethically bankrupt as the British Empire was or that the U.S. agenda truly is worse than any other internationalist run, historically?

(I have a naturally scolding writing style - I actually like and respect you, Idaho)

[Idaho]

Right. As Englishmen, you have somehow lived longer than Americans and personally viewed historical occurrences through the ages. You clearly have a stronger and more mature government than we do.

Would anyone argue that American internationalism has been as ethically bankrupt as the British Empire was or that the U.S. agenda truly is worse than any other internationalist run, historically?

(I have a naturally scolding writing style - I actually like and respect you, Idaho)

Not at all. Our government is incompetent and self serving in it's own way. The US govt is just as bad as all the other internationalist runs. And like those before it, will have a period of soul-searching and regret once the current decline gets fully underway.

It's not that European's are cleverer or personally seen it all before. But that our national expectations and cultural beliefs with regard to imperialism are different.

And don't worry about offending me - I'm far too thick-skinned :)