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Thread: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

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  1. #1
    Athena's favorite Member Vlixes's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Quote Originally Posted by Urg View Post
    I don't think its a mistake.

    My latin dictionary says "alio" is an adverb (not a declension of alius, which is an adjective) which means "to someone/someplace else". I think it was a relatively common latin word.
    An adverb will make no sense. Definitely is a mistake.
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    COYATOYPIKC Senior Member Flatout Minigame Champion Arjos's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Alio is the correct dative in archaic latin. The language in use at the start date and for two of the three centuries covered by EB...
    Last edited by Arjos; 03-31-2013 at 10:48.

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    Athena's favorite Member Vlixes's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjos View Post
    Alio is the correct dative in archaic latin. The language in use at the start date and for two of the three centuries covered by EB...
    Where can I see this?
    Quetzalcóatl, The Feathered Serpent.
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    Tribunus Plebis Member Gaius Scribonius Curio's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    According to the Lewis and Short dictionary the older version of the dative is found in Plautus (f. ~230 BCE). Furthermore, from the same source, the adverb alio is based on an old dative form, not the ablative you would expect, meaning 'elsewhere' or 'to another person or thing' similar to the Greek 'allose'.

    Similarly, on 'quisque' the Lewis and Short states 'often used with reflexive se, suus'. On the other hand, often is not always, and it not necessary to do so.
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    Iuppiter, et rebus nox abstulit atra colorem.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    incidentally...

    reconstructed Gallo-Brythonic "papos est allotoutos aliu"

    reconstructed Proto-Germanic "mannz ist unkunyaz antherammu"

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    Member Member Gabriel Oi Taurisia's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    It's kind of strange to reawake a four year-old thread, but I wanted to note that alio may actually be correct.

    Putting aside what alio meant in medieval vulgar Latin, let us focus on the standard Classical Latin; in particular, on what the ablative case, in the Classical Era, could mean in a sentence. Back then, Alio was indeed the ablative case of Alius, i.e. someone else.

    Here is a list of the meanings that an ablative-inflected word can have in a sentence, always referring to the word alio:
    Cause - i.e. the expression because of someone else
    Means - i.e. the expressions by means of someone else, or through someone else
    Time - Using the word vesper, the sentence "He arrived in Rome in the evening" would translate "Vespro Romam venit", in which the
    ablative case of vesper (vespro) is used. Alio can't of course be used with such a meaning.
    But there's still another meaning, which is what may interest the famous EB subheading.
    An ablative can also mean "according to"; thus, alio can signify "according to someone else", which is what we look for.

    Surely, if what we want to say is "to someone else", in Classical Latin, the right word is alii, i.e. the dative case. But, as aforementioned, alio can be used as well, albeit with a slight different meaning; a difference as slight as that between "to someone else" and "according to someone else".

    So, isn't Quisque est barbarus alio the right wording?

    A second note, about the pronunciation of the sentence. The English phonology is enormously different from that of Latin. As such, it is truly impossible to write an English expression with the absolute same pronunciation as that of Latin; be it the Classical (Restituta) or the Ecclesiastical one.

    The only way, for anyone - English, Italian, French speaker, whoever; although it may be easier for some - to know how a Latin phrase in pronounced, is reading its IPA transcription. The International Phonetic Alphabet is made exactly for this kind of purpose.

    A good IPA transcription would be /kwi:skwɛ ɛst ba:rbɐrʊs a:lio/; while the English transcription that was posted in this thread, which presents showy divergences, if spoken by a native English speaker has instead this sound: /kwɪskweɪ ɛstʰ ba:bəɹʊs a:liəʊ/. For an English native speaker, the highest hurdle would be speaking the trilled R (/r/) instead of the English /ɹ/ - or the vowels.
    Last edited by Gabriel Oi Taurisia; 09-08-2017 at 11:34.

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  7. #7

    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    These threads are always slightly over my head but also always exactly what I love about EBII! You guys keep arguing about language and history and I will keep watching it all eagerly, just for the pure joy of learning!

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