What is high school like in your country?

[Beefy187]

Hey all. In University, I want to take a course on Education to fulfill my ambition to make a awesome school in Japan.

Education system in Japan are not that great in my opinion. For example, we have a little choice in what to learn as most school don't offer alternative course other then the usual set. Science lessons are mostly about learning rules, history are memorizing 'facts' of what happened in year blah blah and who did what. English lessons are only about learning grammar and after 6 years of English learning, they can barely communicate with native English speakers.

Also due to the low quality of our teachers, many rely on night school to up their grades.
Their main focus is to get into a good Uni rather then to actually learn anything.

Now of cause there are excellent schools around, but the majority of school is still rather poor in the method of actually teaching. We used to be the top in Asia but now, Korea and China proved them selves to be far more efficient in terms of education.

This made me wonder. What is high school like in your countries? Is there an curriculum that teacher has to follow, or rule that teacher must teach in certain ways?

[Strike For The South]

Most of my teachers were just average. I had one really good history and one really good bio teacher but other than that my high school career consisted of drinking women and football but then again thats generally what public high school in Texas is like. Which would explain the high teen pregnancy STD and poverty rates.

But you win some and you lose some.

Props to you though. I want to teach when I grow up to and think what your doing is awesome!

[Beefy187]

Most of my teachers were just average. I had one really good history and one really good bio teacher but other than that my high school career consisted of drinking women and football but then again thats generally what public high school in Texas is like. Which would explain the high teen pregnancy STD and poverty rates.

But you win some and you lose some.

Props to you though. I want to teach when I grow up to and think what your doing is awesome!

Cheers

From my impression of American education in general, it seems that teacher has more freedom to teach what ever they want to as they aren't any necessary curriculum to follow. For example for teaching English, can they choose what ever text they feel like using?

Also how would you get assessed? Do you get assignments, tests or both?

I hope you become the manliest teacher ever.

[Strike For The South]

Cheers

From my impression of American education in general, it seems that teacher has more freedom to teach what ever they want to as they aren't any necessary curriculum to follow. For example for teaching English, can they choose what ever text they feel like using?

Also how would you get assessed? Do you get assignments, tests or both?

I hope you become the manliest teacher ever.

No there is a curriculum (at least in Texas all US states are different) however many teachers are allowed to tailor it to there needs so every teacher is different.

Most teachers are underpaid and under appreciated

My first tears at uni (Im a freshman right now) will consist of me getting my basics my last two years will be spent on my major (General History) and general education (dealing with kids, how to teach, ETC) I'm also going to get a minor in general science so I can teach the lower level science classes as well.

I will get assesd by the TEA (Texas Education Agency) through a test. At which point they will give me my license. Throughout my years I will be required to go to seminars and workshops to "better" myself (many teachers go to the non-required ones as well. Lots of innovation happen here, surprisingly)

I will.


EDIT: Some of the specifics may be off. I'm just trying to get through basics right now! lol but thats how it was explained to me.

[Beefy187]

I see.. It seems that teacher are underpaid in lot of countries.

As for Japan, teachers are one of those stable jobs as you get paid more regardless of how well you do or teach and once you become a teacher, you cannot get fired (you can get sent to another school, but not fired unless you commit crimes). Well at least thats my understanding.

I see your also interested in teaching history (me too). How do they normally teach history in high school. And are they biased at all?

[Strike For The South]

In the US it's kinda like that. The union is very strong and tends to close ranks.

In my classes they stressed original documents and looking at more than one source. For instance, my junior year we read "A Peoples History of The United States" By Howard Zinn to balance out our (rather) conservative textbook.

I would like to point out however that I took AP classes. The regular classes were just allot of facts but not as biased to American nationalism as you might think.

Are you going to teach in Japan?

[Beefy187]

Yea I hope I can teach in Japan. Either teaching history or drama. (if not English)

In Japan the stuff we get is fairly biased... against the Japanese surprisingly due to Korean and Chinese influence on our historical views. Our attitude on history is rather political and we are taught a lot about how bad we we're and what kind of stuff we did to the Koreans and Chinese such as the Rape of Nanjing. The honest attitude of the high school students are deep hate for history as they teaches us about stuff that is completely irrelevant (such as the name of 7th Indian king.. Not saying that its pointless) and stuff which makes us feel like our ancestors been doing a lot of bad things.

Recently the commander of our Air force was criticized for his over nationalist view on history and he got into a lot troubles. But most internet sources and books sources are slowly showing more nationalistic views and sources in recent years.

I think the Air force commander went a tad too far, but I also disagree with our history education which just makes people say "Japans was a bad country. I'm getting out of here"

[Ice]

It honestly depends on the state/area.

Inner City schools in Detroit, Michigan (about 20 min from where I live... when I'm not at school) are pure crap. The teachers are underpaid and under appreciated, like Strike said, and the schools lack the necessary supplies. Many students drop out before finishing the 10th grade.

Now, the first high school I went to was very old (it looked like an East German Prison). It was a very large school and encompassed areas such as trailer parks to 1 million dollar houses. Thus, I got a very diverse experience. The academics were excellent for those who were gifted (I know many kids who got into Harvard, Northwestern, MIT, etc), and those who were semi gifted (like myself... went to a really good state school). However, for the lower rungs of school it wasn't so good. Big class sizes and diverse amounts of students from different demographics made teaching/learning a task, although the majority of graduating seniors went to decent universities, got a job, or joined the military ( I know one kid who is special forces in Iraq, currently).

Now, the school where I graduated was a little different. The building was brand new, and the students came from a fairly even income. Thus, the tougher classes weren't all that great (for example AP Calc was a breeze compared to the hell it was at my other school), but the normal classes were far superior.

Overall, I'd say on average, most Americans are not educated rigorously enough. Much more federal (tens of billions) and state funding is needed especially in areas like Detroit.

In both high schools I attended, you had a choice of what you wanted to study and how hard/easy the course would be.

[TevashSzat]

It depends very much on the area you live in as Kush said.

I live fairly close to Washington DC. The counties around it have some of the best schools in the nation because everyone who lives there are either doctors or lawyers or lobbyists or business executives who live in million dollar homes and pay sky high property taxes. Their schools are top notch and easily 15+ of the students at the better high schools go to ivy league schools.

You go into Baltimore city, a whole nother story. Teacher retention rate is horrible and there is ton of dropouts or criminal activity, ect....

[Beefy187]

I went to Australian primary school on year 6-7 and Australian high school from 8-12 (12 is when we graduate) but I noticed many of the assignments and tasks had to be done by using creativity. For example in grade 4 in Japan (which is equivalent of grade 5 in AUS), I was doing stuff like.... Yea Asian stuff. Just mass pile of works where you just have to do it over and over again. But in Australia, one of the first task we had to do were things like

- Create your own Alien, planet etc.

For this I made a huge red wolf thing o with wings, in a gigantic planet. But my teacher said although the wolf actually looks like a wolf, I'm completely ignoring gravity.

- Transport chicken from one side of the cliff to another

I suggested putting a enormous spring on its leg. But then, this time I was ignoring weight.

Then in high school, English department was pretty creative with their tasks.

-Act out of Romeo and Juliet, Mcbeth etc
-Pretend that you are trapped in this little island with the group of your friends. Write a diary

etc

As a whole, they seemed to have more stuff which make us think more deeper like debates, in contrast to Japanese where teacher just shove all the information in kids head and kids just have to try not to spill anything.

In regards of what Tevash said, what do you reckon is the key to an better education? Do you reckon if schools in Baltimore had better resources and money, it would be different?

[Strike For The South]

In regards of what Tevash said, what do you reckon is the key to an better education? Do you reckon if schools in Baltimore had better resources and money, it would be different?

That my friend is for the backroom

[Megas Methuselah]

High School.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Beefy,

From what I've been reading the Japanese are actually very progressive when it comes to teaching. I guess I'll take your word for experience though, but it is a bit paradoxical.

I live in the same city SFTS did for highschool and attend a public highschool as well. He brings up a good point about (American)football, girls, and alcohol and for a large portion of American kids in public school (in or out of Texas) that is the case. At least in the south it is. Northerners can just insert other sports in the place of (American) football.

From a different perspective I'll give my outlook. I have a few drinks blah blah, but I'm not into that whole highschool lifestyle. I play football, which here is fun, but relatively nothing in terms of "fame" it may get you. People just don't care as much. Lifestyle is laid back for me and schooling is a mix of a lot of things.

The first three years of highschool are very similar to what you say. You have core classes you have to complete (there are levels of each. The most advanced get into Pre-AP/AP, then comes Enriched, then comes regular, and a few others). Most people study for hours in search of that number grade to get them into University instead of actually learning.

The last year is usually when a lot of people begin to slack off. They send in University applications early and take blow off classes so they have nothing to do for the last year (granted this is not everyone, just some that I see.....that are usually that football stereotype SFTS hints at )

There are those that choose to take a lot of elective classes (you have the ability to take a lot more elective classes in subjects you want to follow in University). For example I am taking AP Psychology, and AP European History. Both electives that include a lot more work to my workload, but the last is the best for learning. Grades matter, but not SO much, so you don't have to worry about the number, but what sticks in your head.

That's what I've seen my past four years. Perhaps I'll remember and add some more.

[Strike For The South]

Hey sweetheart I'm in uni!!!

[seireikhaan]

Iowa is pretty good regarding high schools, particularly where I came from. Teachers are given a degree of flexibility, but there seems to be a fair degree of uniformity in certain styles which are widely adopted. Most of my teachers were pretty fair for the most part, and most were decent enough to work with.

At UNI right now, most of my teachers are fairly bland atm, with the exception of my macro econ prof, who admits to being an oddball, but offers good solid analysis of how the economy works.

[Beefy187]

Beefy,

From what I've been reading the Japanese are actually very progressive when it comes to teaching. I guess I'll take your word for experience though, but it is a bit paradoxical.

Honestly I have a little experience in Japanese education as I lived in Australia longer then I have in Japan. But while there are some amazing schools, in general Japanese education is full of problems.

Few weeks ago, we had a huge group of students shop lifting in air port and declared that shop lifting is their schools tradition and teachers knew all about it but did nothing.

We also have problems about smoking in schools and bullying where teachers are too afraid to punish those students. There is also a lot of case where teachers bully the kids who goes to night school as they think that the lessons they give in day schools aren't good enough.

There is no tests in order to get a teaching job, as long as they got the teaching license from the Uni. And once they are teacher.. You get constant pay rise regardless of how good you are at teaching.

Then again, thats what I have reading combined with recent issues I see on TV about Education so I don't know if this is actually the case.

I guess if teachers where considered as a company and students are considered as clients, and if they actually promotes competition, school will actually be heaps better in our country.

Regarding whether this topic is back room... It probably is.. If someone can move this topic that will be great so we can get more in depth discussions

[shlin28]

Chinese schools from primary schools to universities are all hell, you have to do lots of tests, lots homeworks, lots of tests, lots of homeworks, lots of tests, too little scientific experiments, too little sports... did I mention the tests? THE TESTS???

I studied Year 1-3 in China, when I came to England and went to an English school I was shocked at so little work they did... they are sticking pretty pictures and making stuff (very fun, but seems a step down compared to China) when in China I was doing maths stuff I only started to do in Year 7 in secondary school. Suffice to say, I do not have to use my brain in the English primary school.

In secondary school the subjects gets harder, but still not very taxing. The only subject I am relatively bad is P.E (duh...) and Art (WHY DID I CHOOSE ART???). The GCSE tests at the end of Y11 does not seem terribly hard, and every year the teachers whine about how their subjects is getting easier every year... (In China people have to learn more and more to keep up)

The British education system has some advantages though, we get to play far more sports, do a lot more experiments (flames! YAY!), and in history we learnt to analyse historical events, whilst in China we just learn the dates/people/events.

Of course, my English is also much better

[Quintus.JC]

Chinese schools from primary schools to universities are all hell, you have to do lots of tests, lots homeworks, lots of tests, lots of homeworks, lots of tests, too little scientific experiments, too little sports... did I mention the tests? THE TESTS???

I studied Year 1-3 in China, when I came to England and went to an English school I was shocked at so little work they did... they are sticking pretty pictures and making stuff (very fun, but seems a step down compared to China) when in China I was doing maths stuff I only started to do in Year 7 in secondary school. Suffice to say, I do not have to use my brain in the English primary school.

In secondary school the subjects gets harder, but still not very taxing. The only subject I am relatively bad is P.E (duh...) and Art (WHY DID I CHOOSE ART???). The GCSE tests at the end of Y11 does not seem teribly hard, and every year the teachers whine about how their subjects is getting easier everyyear... (In China people have to learn more and more to keep up)

The British education system has some advantages though, we get to play far more sports, do a lot more experiments (flames! YAY!), and in history we learnt to analyse historical events, whilst in China we just learn the dates/people/events.

Of course, my English is also much better

I echo everything Shlins says.

[yesdachi]

I think overall the US school system is broken and have discussed it before but I do think the opportunities in high school are great for all types of students. If you just want to learn what you NEED to and get out, you can OR if you want to take every pre-college class, vo-ed classes, etc. and maximize your learning experience you can. And it doesn’t have to be in a specific area but there are many available, I choose art but my buddy chose chemistry and another friend chose auto engine repair. It seems that the options are there and fore someone that wants to apply themselves the US school system works well. But I do think it is plagued with lame teachers and distracting “bad” students.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

I don't know. I mean the more people that get good degrees, the less we have to labor for us privileged few...I like an aristocracy

[Beefy187]

I suppose the government can't do much about the Private schools. Even I say education system is broke in Japan, there are so many good Private schools around.. Shame that I only know a few good state schools.

Summery of stuff so far.

Advantage of Asian schools

-Studies a heck of a lot harder
-History lessons are boring. Just learning dates/persons etc
-English study sucks.. Grammar, structure

Advantage of American/ UK schools

-Studies fun/ more creative subjects
-You can choose subjects
-Histories fun.
-Well.. English country.

How do they teach foreign language in Korea and China etc?
Is it based on grammar and structures like Japan or do they teach to communicate with native speakers?

Also other then Canadians speaking both English and French, do many American/ English school offer a course on foreign language? If so how effective are they?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Also other then Canadians speaking both English and French, do many American/ English school offer a course on foreign language? If so how effective are they?

For the record, high school French in Canada is mostly about grammar and structure. After a good five to eight years in French, very few learn to speak it fluently as a result of high school education in my experience.

[Ice]

Also other then Canadians speaking both English and French, do many American/ English school offer a course on foreign language? If so how effective are they?

Yes, in the two I've been to. I assume many others do too.

I believe two years was mandatory (unless you were an idiot and they stuck you in some basic reading class). Most students did three and four was very optional (it was honors level at the one school). I stopped at three, but in hindsight I should have done a fourth year as I could have placed out of most of the my university required foreign language classes.

The four basic languages offered are :

French
Spanish
German
Latin

I've spoken to some students at uni that say they have taken Japanese.

The degree you know the language depends on how much you apply yourself and the instructor. Once again, I wish i would have paid more attention in German, but I honestly didn't care due to the fact I was going to be an engineer and they were exempt from all languages classes. I switched my major to accounting and had to take three semesters. Damn.

[TevashSzat]

Also other then Canadians speaking both English and French, do many American/ English school offer a course on foreign language? If so how effective are they?

I'm live in Maryland and around here, most high schools offer at least Spanish, French, and Latin. As for the quality, you can be half decent, I suppose, if you keep on taking it up to AP Whatever Foreign Language it Is, but other than that, not really.....I took Spanish up till Spanish V. I can speak it half decently, I suppose, enough to get by if I traveled to a Spanish speaking country, but hardly enough for me to stay there an extended amount of time. Writing, however, is just horrendous for me.....

[Ice]

I'm live in Maryland and around here, most high schools offer at least Spanish, French, and Latin. As for the quality, you can be half decent, I suppose, if you keep on taking it up to AP Whatever Foreign Language it Is, but other than that, not really.....I took Spanish up till Spanish V. I can speak it half decently, I suppose, enough to get by if I traveled to a Spanish speaking country, but hardly enough for me to stay there an extended amount of time. Writing, however, is just horrendous for me.....

I always found writing easier in Spanish and German.

[KukriKhan]

What is high school like in your country?

In a word: tehsux.

I intend no disrespect to our US High School graduates; heck, I'm just a drop-out myself.

But. They cannot construct a correctly-spelt, punctuated, or grammatically-correct sentence when they arrive at Uni. Yet they are advanced in whatever field they pursue. Such phenomina bugz mi.

[Yoyoma1910]

Also other then Canadians speaking both English and French, do many American/ English school offer a course on foreign language? If so how effective are they?

In Louisiana we have full immersion schools, where children learn all their non English subjects in another Language, usually French or Spanish, but I think a couple are expanding into Mandarin. The program was started and promoted by CODOFIL, Conseil pour le développement du français en Louisiane, in an attempt to save the language diversity that had existed for centuries in our state.


What you have to realize about the U.S. linguistically, is that in the post WWI environment of the 20s on through the 1960s, there was a strong movement to make English the one Language of this nation. My grandparents generation was literally beaten for speaking French or Cajun in school. So, many of them decided not to teach their children the language, and save them the stigma.

[Megas Methuselah]

For the record, high school French in Canada is mostly about grammar and structure. After a good five to eight years in French, very few learn to speak it fluently as a result of high school education in my experience.

The French classes suck, yeah. But also offered is French Immersion. I could speak good French by the time I got out of grade 8, and found upon discontinuing French immersion in high school that the simple French classes offered at my old high school were all reviews from what I already knew. Easy passes.

If you take French Immersion from kindergarten all the way to your graduation of high school, you'll be perfectly fluent in French.

[Fragony]

What is high school like in your country?

In a word: tehsux.

I intend no disrespect to our US High School graduates; heck, I'm just a drop-out myself.

But. They cannot construct a correctly-spelt, punctuated, or grammatically-correct sentence when they arrive at Uni. Yet they are advanced in whatever field they pursue. Such phenomina bugz mi.

Could be worse, at the uni's here teachers tend to overestimate their english skills which can lead to what we call Denglish, much to the amusement of our southern neighbours who's teachers are much better educated. It is quite unnerving that I have to explain certain parts of the texts to the person who is to review my work.

Anyways, here you get an advice after primary school, there is VWO which is easy, HAVO for the braindead and VMBO for the hopeless. With VWO you can go to university, with HAVO to the 'Hogeschool' which is a scale below but in reality often harder then university, with VMBO you get to learn how to breath undependently become a pimp and get a welfare check.

[shlin28]

How do they teach foreign language in Korea and China etc?
Is it based on grammar and structures like Japan or do they teach to communicate with native speakers?

Also other then Canadians speaking both English and French, do many American/ English school offer a course on foreign language? If so how effective are they?

In China they force you to learn vocab and grammar rules in school, and when you get home your parents force you into special English classes. Of course, this means my cousins and friends in China know a lot of English, can write them, can read them, can understand what you are saying, but can't pronounce words correctly to save their lives. (Part of the problem is lack of foreigners... here in England all the language teachers actually are French/German/etc, but in China they are taught mostly by, you guessed it, Chinese people. One of friends and one of my cousin goes to the best high school in the city, and they only get taught speaking English by a Canadian student once a fortnight)

Of course, not much can be said for the British system for teaching languages either. Only 5 of 120 people in our year are going to take French/German/Spanish for A-Level next year, and 4 of them are natives of the country whose language they are studying Demonstrating just how sucky the language department is.