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Thread: Hojo campaign: "Half a campaign: Half a Japan"

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    General Hayashi Member patdj's Avatar
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    Default Hojo campaign: "Half a campaign: Half a Japan"

    Seems like there is nothing else we could talk about so I'll just let those interested participate in the interesting phase of my Hojo campain.

    I started 1530 on expert. I already talked about what happend in other threads, so I'll spare the retrospective here. After I conquered Central Japan an build a strong border towards the Shimazu empire in the West I tackled the remaining Oda forces in the East in a rather minimalistic war. Oda seemed to have financial or infrastructural problems there and hardly had any troops. The biggest problem was a rather big rebel army, smashed into the mud by now.

    So I start throwing all my forces to the Western frontier. Shimazu owns the one half of Japan (excluding tiny little Bitchu, where the last Oda forces await there fait with a amount of men) and I am owning the other half (apart from little rebel Kazusa, which I'm invading at the moment). Oda asked me for a ceasefire AND an alliance. Could be useful, perhaps he draws some Shimazu troops attention, if he is not allied to them.

    I have a strong income (oh wonder) and am training rather qualitative then quantitative troops. Essentially I fight with archers, all three types of cavalry, No Dachi and some Kensai.

    Because of its strategic importance (port and strong income there) I'm invading Owari first. Could be tough one, I'm way better at defending rather than attacking, but I fear that the Shimazu break into mass troop production and build a wall of 3k armies. This could make the campain last some years longer... <- Wall.




    Hm, obviously they are preparing the invasion of Wakasa. Quite smart, since it the least defendable province at the moment.

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    Sage Member Wasp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Well, you have the Kwanto, so I think money-wise, you're having the upperhand. Just slowly crush the Shimazu with your superior troops?
    The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish, and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten. The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits. When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten. The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.

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    General Hayashi Member patdj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Mass attack on Mino. Shimazus 3rd attempt to win this province. And his armies get bigger and bigger. Same map, fortunately. Unfortunately, I missmanaged my army-composition when choosing the invading troops for Owari, so I have 50% archers.
    Considering the hill, it is nice, but they are outnumbering me 3000 to 1000... Anyway, I have a decent slope and I inmediately reach his troops with my arrows. He sends a unit of Arquebusiers, the try to get to my bowies and I have to waste loads of arrows on them till they finally rout. Thought of crashing them with my single cavalry unit but they were way to near the enemy lines.
    Then the enemy approaches. 6 archer units give them a piercing welcome, the kill ratio is exploding. He rushes my archers with his Naginata Cavalry (General). My Yari Cav bashes into his flank while my No Dachi and a Kensai take his front with a nice slope advantage. The fall like crazy and rout after one minute of encounter. Mass routing at the enemy. They seem to recognize some bodies on the grass, I demolished 2 whole armies 2 and 3 years before.
    I try to chase them as good as I can with my single cavalry and the No Dachi. I try to withdraw in time, cause I'm expecting some more of those, a bit to early though. They regroup and form a small 2nd wave which routs after one volley of (my last) arrows and a charge of my cavalry.
    The 3rd wave isn't to keen on fighting either, seems like they are hardly able to walk with all the bodies and arrows around...
    As always, the reinforcements come from all sides. It gets sticky. My units are tiring, a lot now. fortunately the enemy routs constantly, even if he's majority. Still, I have hardly any horses left and Cavalry Archers are driving me crazy.
    Finally they give up. I have hardly anything but archers left and the site looks terrible:



    Anyway:
    - 1550 heads taken, 250 lost. I'm fine with that.
    - AI is lame, how on earth is it possible to send his reinforcements from all sides. It's not realistic, it's not really clever but it is very annoying for me. (Especially in bridge defense. Didn't believe when suddenly cavalry was charging me from behind )
    - Archers rule. They are twice as strong as the MW Archers...


    Afterwards I'm allowed to attack Owari. But I cancel. Don't like cancelling, but they were suddenly outnumbering me. (Damned port they have there...) Not much, but too much to achieve an easy victory. I can wait.


    Invading the rebel province:
    Easy win. He has mainly Archers, I charge him from multiple sides. After some chasing, they rout one by one.

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    General Hayashi Member patdj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Quote Originally Posted by patdj View Post
    Hm, obviously they are preparing the invasion of Wakasa. Quite smart, since it the least defendable province at the moment.
    Sorry, for mistake. I mean Echizo FROM Wakasa.

    Talking of Wakasa: I'm regrouping for defense and launch a counterattack on Wakasa. He has not more than 1k of troops and no good general there. Am doing this one tomorrow though.

    Rebel castle lasts 2 seasons, I am starting to send my garrisons towards the Western frontier, need infantry.


    Yeah, Wasp, that's what I thought, too. But I wasn't sure whether Shimazu's income could still be higher. He's friendly with the Portugese, while I'm refusing to let those Christians in. Additionally, he keeps sending thousands of troops to Owari, nearly every turn and from all over the country as it seems. A fast mass production of troops could run me over, since he is being rich for quite a long time now, while I just finished securing my borders to the East. Let's see what happens. Maybe I have to deal with some more of this mass attacks till he runs out of money.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    I recall them fixing reinforcements in a patch so that they only came from your opponents end of the field. Regarldess, it's best not to chase the routing enemy too much...

    Mino and Mikawa are very easy to defend which should work to your advantage. Would be good to take owari though, if you can.

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    Sage Member Wasp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Would you know where to find that patch, Sasaki? Or is it already in the Gold edition?
    The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish, and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten. The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits. When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten. The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.

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    General Hayashi Member patdj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    I have the Gold Edition and ran the current patch... at least I think so.

    It ocurred to me, that invading Wakasa is a more or less useless thing. The province is rather poor and quite hard to defend. The main advantage is that a victory there would put some pressure on the issue because I would brake his defense line. A lot more provinces to attack while only defending three.

    Still I'm launching. As I could see before the troops there are mainly those that survived their attacks on Mino. Many units of 30 or less. If he doesn't regroup then he will be quite a minority on battlefield. See if he is that stupid.

    I'm approaching hin slowly, can see some peasants in the forest, 48 men. I want to tickle them out there because I have 4 units of cavalry I'm placing on my right flank. I approach them fast with my archer, without rushing my infantry. First volley of arrows gets some movement into the woods archers appear, but suddenly fall back, followed by the peasants and his general, 10 naginata cavs. His other cavalry, mainly with bow approach from far behind the forest while his units (indeed, 3 to 5 small ones with <40 men) run right into my cavalry that comes chasing from the right side. My No Dachi approach from behind, including a Kensai. Mass rout, including general. Kensai seem to be ugly or so because the regularily convince my enemies of routing.
    I chase them down with my cavalry while drawing my archers and infantry to a hill for possible defense.
    He seems to have shown up with half his army (due to the small units) so I await the reinforcements. The ones I see rout as soon as they spawn, but the battle isn't over...
    Is I thought. The troops spawn at all sites of the (huge) map. I start sending my troups all over the field, all by themselves, what else could I do?
    Noone, nowhere... wait!
    A little unit of peasants, backed up by some archers came wobbeling out of the forest, right into the arms of two of my archers. No Dachi are near as well and I'm approaching from two sides. Little brave peasants. 2 volleys and they are half, as soon as the No Dachi touch them they rout, and die. The archers, same story. As the last one dies, battle is over:




    Additionally, it seems like attacking Wakasa was not such a bad idea at all:



    His provinces are rather empty (like would be mine if he broke through ). Should start a mass invasion, attacking 4 or 5 provinces at a time?

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    General Hayashi Member patdj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    "Is I thought." -> As I thought.

    Still can't edit my posts, so I'm sorry for doubleposting. I'm rather against invading all the provinces, could make a hard defense, once he strikes back. I would rather wait till he distributes his troops, so I can tackle Owari. As soon as Owari falls I hold his in my hands.

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    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    How long til the garrison in Owari falls, by the way?
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

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    General Hayashi Member patdj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Am I misunderstanding you? I see no siege in Owari.

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    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Gah; never mind. I didn't look closely enough at the screenshot, and thus didn't realize that was a Shimazu army sitting outside the castle (I'd thought it was one of your armies).
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

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    General Hayashi Member patdj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Hm, Martok. I'd say it was still my fault... you were just a bit more advanced: a awaited spring to come, then attacked Owari and Omi. Guess what: there's a siege in Owari now. The garrison is about to hold for 3 seasons.

    Battle was funny actually. Attacked with loads of archers and some heavy cavalry because I was expecting a hard bridge defense against the Shimazu No Dachi.

    Fortunately: 2 bridges. Additionally the enemy was spread all over the map, only some peasants, No Dachi and Naginata Cav between the too bridges. I approach them with my archers and they start withdrawing. I rush both bridges with my horses and bowies, the only ones brave enough to encounter me are the Naginata Cavs. I block them with my Cavalry and charge some Yari Cav into their back. The die like crazy and rout. I start chasing the enemy including his infantry (marching very quickly... ) uphill and see the majority of his army is already leaving the battlefield. Some Yari Cav and Cav Archers (General) are awaiting their fate, they don't even defend themselves or run, they just die. To lazy for Seppuku I guess. Or the Cav Archers just don't have a sword at hand? This must be a bug, or the enemy troops are just terrible dismoralized by the failures of the past.

    Since most of the army routed I killed only 360 while I lost 30... veeery weird battle, thought this might become more difficult.


    Shimazu withdrew in Omi. New line of defense established and Shimazu is distributing his troops all over the provinces now. Since I have taken Owari he won't get reinforcements too soon. Let's keep this thing movin'.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    The AI isn't properly equipped to handle owari. The two bridges thing confuses it. I hate defending it because a lot of the time the enemy army just freezes on the other side of th river and you have to wait out the timer.

    One thing about seiges that's useful to know, if you do a castle assault you get to keep the fort in its current state, if you let the seige finish it downgrades by one. Can be worthwhile depending on the army.

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    General Hayashi Member patdj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Wow, really didn't know that, THX. Though too late that I read it. But never mind, have plenty of money and I'm not competing on time, as you might see.

    Anyway, I did not really keep the thing moving. I hoped for a counter attack on Owari, unfortunately Shimazu finished his port in Ise on time and is sending massive armies there. That's what I was talking about, he seems to have like 10 provinces to build peasant armies, while I'm focusing on three provinces that have bonusses and high class infrastructure.
    Still, while I was regrouping my troops Shimazu did not counterattack and I don't know what he is waiting for. I will launch an attack on Ise in the next turn, but I'll do so tomorrow. Thanks for the attantion and the help.

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    General Hayashi Member patdj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Seems like this could be a break through turn...

    Launched my attack on Ise with a nearly 2000 men army (unit size 120), invading from Owari. For support, I shipped fresh ND from Sagami directly into Ise. I was very confused as I lead my attack on Ise with a 120 men army, encountering 120 men of Shimazu, then I finally figured out what happened:
    Shimazu invades Owari with his 2600 men army, stationed in Ise (I saw that later) and tries to defend Ise with a garrison. This blocked my major attack on him, but since the ND came by sea they still attack.
    First I thought "Crap! All the year without attacking, and then!?". But, giving it another look: if my No Dachi win in Ise and I defeat his attack at the river, the whole army is trapped and gone. Concluding, this could have been his worst move, ever.

    First battle, 120 No Dachi invading Ise by sea. Pirate crew, ganbarimashoo!

    Ise is rather flat and has woods, that could help me a lot. I'm missing MTW, where you are able to see the units you're encountering, but anyway. My No Dachi are well equipped and honourable, so I hope they beat up each infantry unit he could provide. Archers could make it quite frustrating, but with woods (do they have the same effect on aiming archers like in MTW?) and loose formation it could work. Cavalry, same story. If I lure them into the woods they'll definitely fall.

    Approaching I can see a Shimazu No Dachi unit. Probably the worst case I could get. They keep falling back as I approach, always trying to conserve their height advantages. I'm trying to minimize the latter. As they reach the end of the map, they are on a slight slope and both armies must be quite tired now. I put my ND into 3 rows, his are in 4. I want to surround them a bit. I'm approaching them, then charge. Hm, might be another bug, but the AI doesn't use his slope advantage to charge as well, he just remains there, awaiting me. Massacre, they just get slaughtered. One of the first to beat the grass is there General, few seconds later they root. Lucky me, but an excellent foundation for a devastating defense battle at the river.

    Second battle, 2600 Shimazu invade Owari from Ise, have 2200 for defense.

    I tried to account for everything, even if the army might remain freezed. Deployed like this at the two bridges:




    The first seconds, nothing happened. I was about to brew some Ocha for my men, when they started moving. Mainly archers, btw. About 800 enemies with bow. I hope he isnt up to a static warfare...
    I start withdrawing infantry, on the left bridge, my archers have a slight height advantage, on the right they don't. If he approaches them one by one, a good volley could still cut their amount of arrows down to a harmless number, see what happens...
    One unit of archers comes to close, so I put two of min in loose formation and start shooting at them. 20 of them die, before he retreats. At this time I start realizing, what he did. Ok, AI is really not equipped for Owari, his deploy looks nice from an geometric point of view but has nothing to do with Sun Tsu. Since they are trapped anyway (and perhaps got nuts by this ), I do not take advantage of this and hunt them down, could cost some men anyway...



    See what he does next.
    He approaches again with his archers, and draws back, and approaches... I keep shooting at him if he's near, and eventually approach a bit more. Now I'm close enough for him to shoot at me as well. I have plenty of archers, so I don't care about some losses.

    Boring bugs. The archers sometimes shoot, sometimes just get shooted. This continues till both his archer units where shot down completely (without routing... thought: if the AI tactic is buggy, his units are buggy as well, so they do NOT rout if they get moral penalties?). Time limit expires without further movements.



    Ok, indeed, the whole T-formed army got caught, his provinces have little garrisons only. I agree with Sasaki-san, defending Owari sucks, because I have an hudge advantage now by this stupid bug. Last picture of this thread, promise:



    I think of starting a mass invasion in spring. As you can see he can send reinforcements to Kawachi only and I can block this province by taking Tamba, Yamashiro and Yamato. I'll need some extra troops to defend myself against Kii (no harbour atm) and Tanila, but this should be easy.

    Ah, btw: I'm fighting my first siege now, because Ise will last over one year. Another funny thing: although I only had around 70 No Dachi in Ise AND a siege going on I have 132% loyality their. They seem not to like Shimazu too much. :D

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    Weird Organism Senior Member Drisos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Wow! Winning by nice numbers in battle! It'll be easy victory for this campaign now you got so far, it seems.
    When I read the first post, I wanted to say 'Use lots of regions with castles to traing lots of troops'. Few troops was usually my problem 4 years back. I couldn't win when the enemy had the other half of the map, because I wasn't spending enough money on creating more troops. But you're going fine!

    Different defense at those bridges btw! I usually keep lots of archers in front, but not so close to the bridge that enemy archers can hit me from the other side. I let units cross one by one, shoot them one by one. (they usually rout, but keep coming back) Then when you run out of arrows(killed hundreds by then), I charge and chase them across the border.(killing loads when they are massive on the bridge, they're blocking their only way out)

    But your defense went well. ;)
    - Chu - Gi - Makoto - Rei - Jin - Yu - Meiyo -

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    General Hayashi Member patdj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Hey Drisos. :)

    Yeah, I already read that most players pit the archers to the front. Funny thing that I've never done that. I always kept my archers behind spearmen or other infantry (in MTW). The only advantage is that the do not have to retreat when enemies are approaching, essentially it might be due to lazyness. I already thought about your way of defending bridges and have done similar, too. Still, do you block approaching units after they crossed the brige? Or do you really shoot them down so hard that they inmediately rout?
    (In my case my archers were out of range of the enemy archers, I just approached them because I wanted to do something. )


    Back to topic, then. It's late, but I want to execute the attacks I prepared today. As I told you, I'm invading Yamato, Yamashiro and Tamba with my main armies. I'm launching an attack from two sides on Iga, so they can't backstab me.



    He retreats in Tamba, Yamato and Yamashira. Battle of Iga:

    Bit of highland, so I'm looking for a good path to get a height advantage myself. This tires my troops a bit. He seems to have two units of Yari Cav and some Ashigaru Samurai. As I approach his Cav with Archers they withdraw and keep doing so till they have a height advantage themselves. Their General is far far away in a forest with slope. I think that one No Dachi unit will do and just send them. Returnig to my archers I see that the Yari Cav started charging. Crap, grave mistake, this is going to be an expensive battle. Fortunately I can send my Heavy Cav in to block them, but they take many causalties as well. My infantry arrives and starts slaughtering them all apart from two that got away. Tallking of slaughtering: his YS kicked my NDs hard, I start raining arrows on them and the withdraw to open field. My horses hunt them down. Battle over, could have done this a lot better.

    Situation:



    I'm ending the minor siege in Iga next turn and one major in Yamashiro. Next will be Kii and Kawachi. Afterwards I have a stable border he can run against. I'm not expecting any counterattacks that could harm me seriously, but I reorder troops so I'm on the safe side. To be continued tomorrow.



    Now, I have some General Questions that ocurred to me during the last 3 or 4 turns:
    a) Is the Emperor in Yamashiro of any valour, except the diplomatical one?
    b) The AI makes his movements after considering mine, right?
    c) If I'm attacking a province, and the AI counterattacks in the opposite direction, am I always defending?
    d) When do I use triangle formation? What drawbacks must I consider? Do I inmediately switch back to normal formation after the impact?
    e) Does it make sense to let troops rest? I see them tiring out very fast and hardly see any benefit of letting them rest.
    f) How do I best deploy the infantry? No Dachis in long, but few rows, so they can cludge aroung the enemy? Cavalry same story? Or more compact? How about the Ashigaru? Should they always remain in line and/or hold position? And archers? Do they hit more of they are in a more squared deploy or if the are in 3 long rows? Does it affect their aiming if they are in loose formation?
    g) Are there siege battle where the doors are closed (like MTW) or where there are arrows coming from towers or so?
    h) Till now, I never was friendly to Christians, because I feared religious uproars in my provinces. Can somebody explain me, how exactly the different interactions (giving audience, accepting their proposal, building a church, building trading posts) with Christians affect the believe of my Daimyo and my people.

    Just wanted to proove I'm still rather new to this came. :D Maybe I'll have some more later. Sorry in advance.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    g) Siege doors always closed unfortunately. No arrows from towers

    e) They can regain some energy depending, but it's not really practical to try and rest them

    d) I never really used triangle. Maybe if your hitting someone from behind or really want to quicken a battle. Definitely don't combine with hold formation!

    f) Archers aim best in 2 rows. Not always practical in 120 man units. Usually for other units I leave them in standard and adjust to fit the terrain and the enemy army.

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    General Hayashi Member patdj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    g) Siege doors always closed unfortunately. No arrows from towers
    Thanks for your answers. Till now I only fought sieges against the small castles. They just go uphill and have an entrance, which is not blocked by dors like in MTW. You can just walk in and smash the units standing at the door. Only advantage for the defender is some height advantage and that the enemy must pass the entrance, so you can try to block it with some heavy armoured high class unit. Like in a bridge battle for example.

    Indeed, 2 rows for a 120 men archer unit isn't too practical. But if you have three of them you will grow wide anyway, so you could place them after each another instead of aside.

  20. #20
    Sage Member Wasp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    A) That province gives an honour bonus to every troop produced there.
    B) I believe it does, yes.
    C) That's a tough one. If the system processes your actions first, you'd be the attacker I think.

    H) Christianity in your provinces can be seen with right-clicking. If there's a percentage, it means that that part of the population is Christian. People like a Daimyo with the same religion, so a mainly Buddhist province will be harder to keep loyal.
    The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish, and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten. The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits. When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten. The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.

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    General Hayashi Member patdj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    c) :
    Quote Originally Posted by patdj View Post
    Launched my attack on Ise with a nearly 2000 men army (unit size 120), invading from Owari. For support, I shipped fresh ND from Sagami directly into Ise. I was very confused as I lead my attack on Ise with a 120 men army, encountering 120 men of Shimazu, then I finally figured out what happened:
    Shimazu invades Owari with his 2600 men army, stationed in Ise (I saw that later) and tries to defend Ise with a garrison. This blocked my major attack on him, but since the ND came by sea they still attack.
    First I thought "Crap! All the year without attacking, and then!?". But, giving it another look: if my No Dachi win in Ise and I defeat his attack at the river, the whole army is trapped and gone. Concluding, this could have been his worst move, ever.
    That's why I'm asking. This time I was attacking and he was attacking and it ended in a defense for me.


    Thanks for the answers.


    I'll now start another turn. Don't have much time these days so I'll probably only do half a year.

  22. #22
    General Hayashi Member patdj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Battle of Kyoto:
    The castle is rather packed, many 6 times 60 men units in there, but no archers. I approach with my 6 units of'em and start raining the castle with arrows. Most arrows hit the wall, but since I have quite a few of them it has the desired effect. Finally I send two No Dachi units in to deal with the second half, supported by two Kensai. The ND take many casualties but fight bravely. As one of my Kensai trusts his sword into their General the battle is over.

    Battle of Iga-Ueno:
    A baby siege. 3 Yari Cavs await their fate next to the walls. I keep shooting arrows at them, and after the first quarter their General finally breaks together under the weight of hundreds of arrows that pierced his body. What a man!

    Both castles down and I'm able to move on. Shimazu send plenty of troops to Kawachi and he switched from No Dachi to Warrior Monks as it seems. At least money he must have, then. I'm attacking Kii and Kawachi heavy. This might be a heavy blow for him because it's one of his last ports. I wonder whether he is smart enough to build some more at the moment? Anyway, taking Kawachi will give me some time to reorder my troops and minimize the number of provinces I need to defend.

    For fun I send a Shinobi to Oda, see what he's up to. He is chillin, essentially, with a huge army in under his butt. I can't imagine that he is surrounded by Shimazu troops. Why does the coward hesitate to attack? He's my freakin ally! Additionally he could win some more land... A feature I missed in MTW as I do here: some sort of comunication with AI allies. Example: "Attack this province next turn." This information should at least raise the probability that he really does so. Are there perhaps similar features in the newer TWs?

    Coming back to my campain, the situation:


  23. #23

    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Sorry patdj, I meant to say that the doors are always open.

    As for cooperation with allies, sometimes if you invade a province that you both border they will invade it as well, and you'll have a 3 army battle. I don't think I've ever resisted the temptation to stab them in the back in those circumstances though.

  24. #24
    Weird Organism Senior Member Drisos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Quote Originally Posted by patdj View Post
    Yeah, I already read that most players pit the archers to the front. Funny thing that I've never done that. I always kept my archers behind spearmen or other infantry (in MTW). The only advantage is that the do not have to retreat when enemies are approaching, essentially it might be due to lazyness. I already thought about your way of defending bridges and have done similar, too. Still, do you block approaching units after they crossed the brige? Or do you really shoot them down so hard that they inmediately rout?
    (In my case my archers were out of range of the enemy archers, I just approached them because I wanted to do something. )
    Having your infantry in front has no big disadvantage either. I like keeping them behind because I hate to get those 'friendly kills' (even if only few)
    I usually shoot them down so hard that they rout yes. But depends on how many archers you have, and especially on the enemy's units that are crossing the bridge. Sometimes they don't rout yet, and I have to charge with some cav. (that usually routs them right away so you don't even have to engage)

    a) Is the Emperor in Yamashiro of any valour, except the diplomatical one?
    That message about his support is only a symbol, I think. Doesn't help. But as Wasp said the region is GREAT for training ANY troops. Always use it to train troops if you have that region.

    b) The AI makes his movements after considering mine, right?
    Unfortunately, yes. so it 'cheats'.

    c) If I'm attacking a province, and the AI counterattacks in the opposite direction, am I always defending?
    I don't know how it works.. your attacks are usually cancelled yes. But I do recall lots in variation in what happened at lots of different scenario's in mixed up attacks/defenses. I don't know the general formula.

    d) When do I use triangle formation? What drawbacks must I consider? Do I inmediately switch back to normal formation after the impact?
    Purely offensive formation if I am correct. I never use it actually I'm afraid. Should be useful when you need a lot of kills in short time. (opposite of holding off the enemy while getting reinforcements)

    e) Does it make sense to let troops rest? I see them tiring out very fast and hardly see any benefit of letting them rest.
    I almost never do. There's usually no time. However, when you do have time, and the waiting has no other disadvantages: yes, of course, don't go running around.

    f) How do I best deploy the infantry? No Dachis in long, but few rows, so they can cludge aroung the enemy? Cavalry same story? Or more compact? How about the Ashigaru? Should they always remain in line and/or hold position? And archers? Do they hit more of they are in a more squared deploy or if the are in 3 long rows? Does it affect their aiming if they are in loose formation?
    less rows= offensive
    more rows= defensive.

    Less rows is quite crappy when you want to circle round the engagement to attack from rear or flank. and the effect isn't that big, usually.

    h) Till now, I never was friendly to Christians, because I feared religious uproars in my provinces. Can somebody explain me, how exactly the different interactions (giving audience, accepting their proposal, building a church, building trading posts) with Christians affect the believe of my Daimyo and my people.

    Example: "Attack this province next turn." This information should at least raise the probability that he really does so. Are there perhaps similar features in the newer TWs?
    Pity indeed that such option isn't there. This is one of the many nice features that S:TW2 has. (in my dreams.. )

    I don't think I've ever resisted the temptation to stab them in the back in those circumstances though.
    ghehe. :D works fine. I recall attacking the enemy together with an allied daimyo. When he almost defeated the enemy, I started attacking my ally, turning the tide of battle. My former ally routed, and of course I blocked off the bridge, killing his entire army and his daimyo. I think it was Oda. Yeah, these battles have great effect indeed.
    - Chu - Gi - Makoto - Rei - Jin - Yu - Meiyo -

  25. #25
    Sage Member Wasp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Quote Originally Posted by Drisos View Post
    h) Till now, I never was friendly to Christians, because I feared religious uproars in my provinces. Can somebody explain me, how exactly the different interactions (giving audience, accepting their proposal, building a church, building trading posts) with Christians affect the believe of my Daimyo and my people.
    I believe that accepting the proposal does nothing yet. Once you build the trading posts and churches, your Daimyo will be Christian, and the whole religious loyalty question begins in your provinces.
    The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish, and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten. The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits. When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten. The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.

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    General Hayashi Member patdj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Lol honourable Backstabmurais talking.

    But yes, I noted that allies join battle sometimes. But I hate fighting with them, because they are way too slow. I only attack if I can crush the enemy (alone). Waiting for an ally is annoying then, so I just bash them and hope that stupid allied archers don't send arrows into my back. Not smart, but never went wrong till now. What sucks is that (at least in MTW) the ally gets the province if he provided the bigger army (of PEASANTS!!! ). I recall biting my keyboard after kicking the Saxons for the sake of peasant-burner Mercia.

    Concerning churches: it would be best then to build churches in all provinces at the same time, so you haven't got one half Christians and one half Buddhists. How long does it take for your people to convert (all)?

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    Sage Member Wasp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    To 100%, I believe that takes a few years (spam priests in all provinces to do it quicker).
    The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish, and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten. The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits. When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten. The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.

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    General Hayashi Member patdj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Ok, thank you. Perhaps in one of the following campains I'll be a Christian.

    Well, I did the next turn because I wanted Kawachi befor wintertime. Was a bridge defense and I think I started well:



    lured his whole cavalry onto the bridge and shot them down heavily with archers. Than I made a mistake that cost me some men. Shimazu started retreating, and I thought I could hit him hard into the back by rushing my cavalry into him. He turned pretty fast and surrounded me with Yaris. I still kicked him but it could have been a lot easier with more pacience.

    End was 880 heads, 530 men lost.


    Second I invaded Kii. He had Naginata Cavs (2x), No Dachi and Samurai Archers there. I feared a considerable piece of work, but I lured one NC uphill und smashed them from both sides, he supported them with his General unit, NC aswell. They fell pretty good and started routing after being nearly completely terminated. The NDs and SAs waited in the forest. Was an infantry fight, where I had the better cards. NDs fought to death and the archers routed at half their size.

    I regrouped troops for a potential counterattack but I think I have nothing to fear. Need more infantry though. My NDs died out somehow.

  29. #29
    General Hayashi Member patdj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Yay, now this get's more interesting:

    I've send a bunch of Shinobi to Inaba, his nearest port, to makes his "logistics" a bit more difficult. Guess what happend. Zombie-Takeda, the undead, reemerged there the third time in this campain. He must have it goin with the ladies because his line seems undeletable. I'm fine with that and hope that he does some troublemaking at the Shimazu provinces.
    Additionally, Oda is getting ambitious now and attacked two Shimazu provinces. I think he was successfull, too.
    Two turns later Takeda got kicked. Short story of success. Prroves that Shimazu is still able to fight. I can't see it properly, but I think, Oda was driven back, as well. My Shinobi caused a Ikko Ikki uproar in Inaba, so Shimazu gets no time to rest. But I do. I'm reinforcing my troops and waiting for a good opportunity to proceed:




    Yay, I'm allowed to edit now. THX to whomever. :)
    Last edited by patdj; 12-17-2008 at 00:25.

  30. #30
    Sage Member Wasp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Half a campain: Half a Japan

    Doing well, it has now become a matter of time, I think?
    The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish, and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten. The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits. When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten. The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.

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