Olympic Truce

[Celtic_Punk]

Now I don't know if this is possible. I've never played M2TW, and I am only buying the game for EBII (you guys are now making CA money perhaps you should get a commission of my purchase ha ha ha ha)
But in the season of the Olympics if a Hellenic power attacks another hellenic power or maybe if a General belonging to a Hellenic faction attacks in the season of the Olympics, he faces some sort of damaging trait or you lose money.

I cannot remember when it was but Sparta was fined during the Olympics one year because they attacked another Hellenic state.

Just trying to bounce some ideas. What do you guys think?

[antisocialmunky]

I believe that this could be done via the guild giving you a few don't attack missions.

[Ludens]

It'll probably confuse the A.I. though. BTW, how long did this truce last, and was it respected by the "Macedonian" factions as well?

[Celtic_Punk]

yes. it lasted till the long enough for all the towns to send their competitors to Olympia till the Olympics finished. The whole point of the truce was originally to allow safe passage for competitors and to allow a feeling of togetherness between all Hellenes, no matter who held Olympia.

[Ludens]

So it would only have applied in the Greece proper, then? In which case it would have lasted less than three months.

[oudysseos]

Still, I think that it would add to the immersion. Good idea.

[Aemilius Paulus]

The AI is not particularly good at keeping truces. It would just make the game somewhat annoying, just like Papacy sometimes does in M2TW. The AI attacks you, but you cannot attack them back or else you're excommunicated . What's going to stop AI from attacking your faction during the Olympic truce? Nothing. What's going to stop you from retaliating? Penalties. I would recommend for all people who want to observe this truce to FD the AI into keeping a truce during Spring, while FD-ing it back into war the next turn.

[oudysseos]

Actually, I was thinking that this could be done through the traits, connected to the Agonistes Olympiakes (that's probably misspelled) trait: any Hellenic FM who is in another Hellenic Factions territory during the Spring/Summer turns of an Olympic year could get a 'Truce-Breaker' trait, which could eventually escalate to 'Despises the Gods' or 'Olympic Outcast'. Affects could be negative public order and/or moral, maybe.

[theoldbelgian]

but that isn't going to stop the AI wich is the major problem here
is the AI aware of very bad traits? and does it do something to avoid it?

[Gatalos de Sauromatae]

but that isn't going to stop the AI wich is the major problem here
is the AI aware of very bad traits? and does it do something to avoid it?

Nope! Most AI generals in M2TW for my own experience always have dread and tons of bad traits. - -"

[theoldbelgian]

Nope! Most AI general in M2TW for my own experience always have dread and tons of bad trait.

damn, is it possible to script in force diplomacy?
and for the human player bad traits?

[Gatalos de Sauromatae]

Hope it could! If not in EB2 there will be mass of dread and uber bad ass around the map.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Nope! Most AI generals in M2TW for my own experience always have dread

I always liked dread more... Population growth resulting from chivalry is not always a good thing in both vanilla RTW & MiNO (Medieval in Name Only - M2TW).

[Ludens]

is the AI aware of very bad traits? and does it do something to avoid it?

Speaking from R:TW experience, the A.I. seems barely aware of the traits' effects, let alone how it obtains the traits. It is possible give these traits only to the human player and to use FD to force a peace, but the A.I. may not be inclined to keep it.

[Gatalos de Sauromatae]

I always liked dread more... Population growth resulting from chivalry is not always a good thing in both vanilla RTW & MiNO (Medieval in Name Only - M2TW).

Yeah! Dread are more usefull than Chivalry especially mongol 10 skulls of dread generals and their horde in vanilla M2TW.
When I played as France first time I always have my full stack of Chivalric Knights commanded by at least 5 skulls of dread bad ass general. Such an irony for those Chivalric Knights. lol
However, this worked very well 'till that damn horde of mongol and their generals appeared and rolled my great kingdom up to the ash with in 20 turns.

[theoldbelgian]

Speaking from R:TW experience, the A.I. seems barely aware of the traits' effects, let alone how it obtains the traits. It is possible give these traits only to the human player and to use FD to force a peace, but the A.I. may not be inclined to keep it.

well for the olympic truce you technicly only need one turn unless they are going to mess with how long a turn is

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

The effects of atributes such as Dread/Chivalry are semi-modable in M2TW...

[antisocialmunky]

Nope! Most AI generals in M2TW for my own experience always have dread and tons of bad traits. - -"

Well from studying history, I can say most notable people didn't get famous through being nice and huggy-lovy.

The AI isn't too far off really.

You guys could just punish greek owned generals with a public order penalty for attacking during the truce rather than punish a whole faction.

[theoldbelgian]

yes butt we are trying to figure out a way that the AI doesn't attack on Olympic season which is historical incorrect and since the AI doesn't give a damn about the traits there should be a system where the AI simply can't attack on Olympic season and the player gets really bad traits and a decrease in reputation with other Greek factions
and now, is this possible?

[Celtic_Punk]

This truce applied as far as baktria if i am not mistaken. As hellens from the farthest reaches of the world would flock to Olympia. Also the penalties should apply to the entire faction. As SPARTA HERSELF was fined money for breaking the truce...
420 bc i believe

Thucydides text:

"At the Olympic games which were held this summer, and in which the Arcadian Androsthenes was victor the first time in the wrestling and boxing, the Lacedaemonians were excluded from the temple by the Eleans, and thus prevented from sacrificing or contending, for having refused to pay the fine specified in the Olympic law imposed upon them by the Eleans, who alleged that they had attacked Fort Phyrcus, and sent heavy infantry of theirs into Lepreum during the Olympic truce. The amount of the fine was two thousand minae, two for each heavy-armed soldier, as the law prescribes. The Lacedaemonians sent envoys, and pleaded that the imposition was unjust; saying that the truce had not yet been proclaimed at Lacedaemon when the heavy infantry were sent off. But the Eleans affirmed that the armistice with them had already begun (they proclaim it first among themselves), and that the aggression of the Lacedaemonians had taken them by surprise while they were living quietly as in time of peace, and not expecting anything. Upon this the Lacedaemonians submitted, that if the Eleans really believed that they had committed an aggression, it was useless after that to proclaim the truce at Lacedaemon; but they had proclaimed it notwithstanding, as believing nothing of the kind, and from that moment the Lacedaemonians had made no attack upon their country. Nevertheless the Eleans adhered to what they had said, that nothing would persuade them that an aggression had not been committed; if, however, the Lacedaemonians would restore Lepreum, they would give up their own share of the money and pay that of the god for them"

found this from http://www.strategikon.com/en/articles/article1.htm

[Aemilius Paulus]

Once again, just FD. Does M2TW have force diplomacy? I think it does, doesn't it?

[Cartaphilus]

Once again, just FD. Does M2TW have force diplomacy? I think it does, doesn't it?

I don't know, but I pray for it.

[a completely inoffensive name]

There will be better AI, FD will be much less of a necessity.

[muha]

Im not sure, but I think I got a good idea.

It seems that in EB, movement points changed with season and area.

So, if possible, they could make it so that during the games, all the generals in greece get 0 movement points?

[theoldbelgian]

good idea butt what with captains?

[Strategos Alexandros]

I'm afraid that wouldn't work too well, because they could still fight non-Hellenes during the truce.

[Cute Wolf]

I would suggest to add a "Hellenic Papacy" faction, that made any Hellenic faction that attacks other Greeks in the Olympic games' time to be excommunicated. But this factions must be selected from a Hellenic league that is well respected by their friends... (Maybe KH, is the choice for Papacy?)

[theoldbelgian]

butt what if that faction gets destroyed?

[Ludens]

This truce applied as far as baktria if i am not mistaken. As hellens from the farthest reaches of the world would flock to Olympia.

Flock? I don't know, but it's my impression that Bactrians participating in the Olympics would have been a rare event. Anyway, I doubt they would have needed a truce: that's mainly to counter the parochialism of Greek city states. In the east this would have been far less of an issue.

But really: how long would the truce last? Would it really last three months, or just a few weeks?

[theoldbelgian]

Flock? I don't know, but it's my impression that Bactrians participating in the Olympics would have been a rare event. Anyway, I doubt they would have needed a truce: that's mainly to counter the parochialism of Greek city states. In the east this would have been far less of an issue.

But really: how long would the truce last? Would it really last three months, or just a few weeks?

I learned in school(but you know how trustworthy that is )that it lasted the entire omypics