Greek Riots

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Opinions on the riots in Athens and other parts of the nation?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7770086.stm

The violence and looting isn't really justified. From what I heard of an English student studying in Athens, it seems the "anarchists" have found a topic to cause trouble.

I wonder why riot police are not armed with guns with rubber bullets or something. Around 33 wounded police officers? From the videos it didn't look like they did much to stop the riots.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Classic Lose-lose dilemma for the controlling authority.

Restrict your forces to non-lethal responses and passive "shepherd" tactics and every once in a while the crowd will feel its oats, ignore the discomfort of tear gas and cry havoc. You then look like idiots while they destroy portions of the town.

Allow your forcs to use lethal force and you end the riots but have massacred your own citizens. Almost invariably those massacred will be "members of the crowd" and none of the real fomenters will get whacked -- but they'll lead the outcry against your barbarism.

[CountArach]

Allow your forcs to use lethal force and you end the riots but have massacred your own citizens. Almost invariably those massacred will be "members of the crowd" and none of the real fomenters will get whacked -- but they'll lead the outcry against your barbarism.

The problem is that that line of thought is how it started:
"They passed close to where 15-year-old Andreas Grigoropoulos was shot dead on Saturday. One banner called the police "murderers".

One protester told the BBC he had been greatly angered by the actions of the police.

"It's not the first time. They always kill people - immigrants, innocent people - and without any excuse," he said. "They murdered him in cold blood." "

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Unless the slain youngling is the scion of one of the local "elite," there is ALWAYS someone who'll blame the cops and call them murderers.

Not all cops are paladins, and they certainly are human enough to make mistakes -- but there is always a group of malcontents who will pillory them, regardless of the facts.

I am, therefore, always skeptical of cries of "police brutality." For me, the fact that an inquiry is in progress and the officers off duty is appropriate -- but then again I'm not looking for an excuse for mayhem.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I am, therefore, always skeptical of cries of "police brutality."

This, and especially when anarchists are doing the crying.

[CountArach]

Unless the slain youngling is the scion of one of the local "elite," there is ALWAYS someone who'll blame the cops and call them murderers.

Not all cops are paladins, and they certainly are human enough to make mistakes -- but there is always a group of malcontents who will pillory them, regardless of the facts.

I am, therefore, always skeptical of cries of "police brutality." For me, the fact that an inquiry is in progress and the officers off duty is appropriate -- but then again I'm not looking for an excuse for mayhem.

I understand where you are coming from - I'm just explaining why having heavily armed police is a bad idea - it gives the mob a reason to riot. If they have that reason then the Government is doing something wrong.

[Fragony]

The problem is that that line of thought is how it started:
"They passed close to where 15-year-old Andreas Grigoropoulos was shot dead on Saturday. One banner called the police "murderers".

One protester told the BBC he had been greatly angered by the actions of the police.

"It's not the first time. They always kill people - immigrants, innocent people - and without any excuse," he said. "They murdered him in cold blood." "

Ever talked to an anarchist?

[CountArach]

Ever talked to an anarchist?

Yes, why do you ask?

[Fragony]

Yes, why do you ask?

Well that's how these clowns talk. That's why.

[lars573]

My borther has disturbingly anarchist leanings. I can imagine him saying stuff like that. Makes me want to go upside his head like we're 7 and 5 again.

[Fragony]

Don't hold back, nothing more annoying then the high moral ground of anti-fascist fascists.

[KukriKhan]

In the case of Greece, we hafta look at their recent (well OK, 'recent' to me, age 58) history. It's not that long ago that the Colonel's in the military junta employed quite aggressive (the opposition says 'brutal') repression techniques on dissenters. As a result, the following democratic gov't institutionalized "safe haven" laws for uni's and churches - those campuses are no-go areas for police now - making them cauldrons of disaffection.

Good points made above re: police use of force and tactics. I assert tho', that those measures, while applicable to US/UK/W. Euro these days, are foreign to the folks in Athens who's memories are long. I predict the police there will just let the rampage die down of it's own accord, without much anti-riot interference, then just quietly compensate property owners who've been harmed.

-edit-
I liken it, somewhat, to the US period after May 1970's Kent State "massacre". That incident polarized the country even moreso than it had been. Within a few years, protests were attended by non-bayonetted, non-live-ammo, passive resistence police forces.

[Hosakawa Tito]

In the case of Greece, we hafta look at their recent (well OK, 'recent' to me, age 58) history. It's not that long ago that the Colonel's in the military junta employed quite aggressive (the opposition says 'brutal') repression techniques on dissenters. As a result, the following democratic gov't institutionalized "safe haven" laws for uni's and churches - those campuses are no-go areas for police now - making them cauldrons of disaffection.

Good points made above re: police use of force and tactics. I assert tho', that those measures, while applicable to US/UK/W. Euro these days, are foreign to the folks in Athens who's memories are long. I predict the police there will just let the rampage die down of it's own accord, without much anti-riot interference, then just quietly compensate property owners who've been harmed.

-edit-
I liken it, somewhat, to the US period after May 1970's Kent State "massacre". That incident polarized the country even moreso than it had been. Within a few years, protests were attended by non-bayonetted, non-live-ammo, passive resistence police forces.

Till I read this article I didn't realize these anarchists/rioters/criminals were allowed asylum. A safe base to prepare/stockpile bombs & weapons/launch attacks from...that's insanity. That's teaching people that impudence is a right, illegality is freedom, rudeness is equality, anarchy is happiness. The rioters are killing/injuring/ruining the livelyhoods of innocent people. Send in the Spartans and arrest/try/imprison the worst ones and make the others rebuild/make reparations/perform community services to the innocent bystanders/shopowners etc. that lost businesses and homes.

[Meneldil]

Being somewhat anarchist-leaning myself, I have absolutely no respect for people who destroy blindly the property and lives of their neighbours.

But then I laugh at the people who think anarchism = terrorism.

[CountArach]

Being somewhat anarchist-leaning myself, I have absolutely no respect for people who destroy blindly the property and lives of their neighbours.

But then I laugh at the people who think anarchism = terrorism.

Yeah, sadly few people realise there is a difference between Anarchy and Anarchism.

[Ice]

But then I laugh at the people who think anarchism = terrorism.

That's not exactly hard to thinkif you aren't aware of what anarchism stands for. These idiots aren't helping, btw.

[seireikhaan]

See? This is proof positive. Exactly why you CANNOT restrict people's access to armaments in any way, shape, or form. As we can see here, there is not a single negative to doing so regardless of the country's social landscape.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

yes, I just went there.

[CountArach]

See? This is proof positive. Exactly why you CANNOT restrict people's access to armaments in any way, shape, or form. As we can see here, there is not a single negative to doing so regardless of the country's social landscape.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

yes, I just went there.

Have fun... prepare to be flamed...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

for your completely sensible and true comment

[Fragony]

But then I laugh at the people who think anarchism = terrorism.

Not really, just an excuse for bored rich kids to wreak some havoc.

[HoreTore]

Well, if it gives something close to the results of the 1973 riots, I say burn away.

[Fragony]

Greek government willingly waxes it's butt and bends over to take it hard deep and unsafe, cop got arrested. Idiots.

[HoreTore]

Greek government willingly waxes it's butt and bends over to take it hard deep and unsafe, cop got arrested. Idiots.

You do know that the greek government is rather corrupt and their police force brutal, right?

[Fragony]

You do know that the greek government is rather corrupt and their police force brutal, right?

Give in for money, give in a for quiet night, both are the self-centered choice; you just could have been doing your job.

[Husar]

It's always the same, anarchism is not about anarchy, satanism not about satan, terrorism is not about terrorising, management not about managing, government is not about governing and chairs are not about sitting on them. *sigh*

[HoreTore]

Give in for money, give in a for quiet night, both are the self-centered choice; you just could have been doing your job.

Same goes for the politicians and police, eh? They could've been doing their jobs instead of lining their pockets or beating up random people.... Alas, they do not...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

It's always the same, anarchism is not about anarchy, satanism not about satan, terrorism is not about terrorising, management not about managing, government is not about governing and chairs are not about sitting on them. *sigh*

Correct, at least on the government one.

[Fragony]

Same goes for the politicians and police, eh? They could've been doing their jobs instead of lining their pockets or beating up random people.... Alas, they do not...

According to the anarchists. They say the exact same things here in fuzzywuzzytstan, shouldn't be taken seriously just rebels without a cause, I say give them one for all the lives they have destroyed the past days, nice to have your shop burned down by bored rich kids.

[HoreTore]

According to the anarchists. They say the exact same things here in fuzzywuzzytstan, shouldn't be taken seriously just rebels without a cause, I say give them one for all the lives they have destroyed the past days, nice to have your shop burned down by bored rich kids.

....According to quite a lot of people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrupt...2.80.932007.29

51 Lithuania 4.8 4.8 4.8 4.6 4.7 4.8
51 Jordan 4.7 5.3 5.7 5.3 4.6 4.5
53 Mauritius 4.7 5.1 4.2 4.1 4.4 4.5
53 Oman 4.7 5.4 6.3 6.1 6.3
56 Greece 4.6 4.4 4.3 4.3 4.3 4.2
57 Namibia 4.5 4.1 4.3 4.1 4.7 5.7
60 Kuwait 4.3 4.8 4.7 4.6 5.3
61 Cuba 4.2 3.5 3.8 3.7 4.6
61 Poland 4.2 3.7 3.4 3.5 3.6 4.0

Greece are ranked together with such functioning states like Lithunaia, Jordan, Oman, Cuba and Poland. You even find a bunch of dictatorships less corrupt than Greece. That's the corruption index by Transparency International. Are they anarchists too?

[Fragony]

Greece are ranked together with such functioning states like Lithunaia, Jordan, Oman, Cuba and Poland. You even find a bunch of dictatorships less corrupt than Greece. That's the corruption index by Transparency International. Are they anarchists too?

What does that have to do with bored rich kids burning stores? If Greece was the least corrupt country the anarchists wouldn't act any different

[CountArach]

What does that have to do with bored rich kids burning stores? If Greece was the least corrupt country the anarchists wouldn't act any different

Can you be sure these are "rich kids"?

How many of the countries higher than Greece have had Anarchists rioting in the streets?