Is EUIII better than EUII?

[Ignoramus]

Being quite an avid player of EUII, I was wondering whether it's worth getting EUIII. From what I've heard and seen from the demo, it appears that a lot of the historical content has been stripped out, which is the biggest appeal of the game to me, but I can also see some important improvements over the EUII engine.

What do you guys think?

[CountArach]

I have not played EUII, but the standard reasoning is as follows:

If you want rigid historicity, play EUII. If you want historical plausibility play EUIII (Though you seriously need to download Magna Mundi...). If you do decide to get EUIII then make sure you get the expansions to go with it - they add a lot of great features and really flesh EUIII out.

[naut]

I'm also hesitant to get EUIII, I'm still quite content with EUII.

[TinCow]

I have never played EUII, but EUIII is an excellent game. From what I can tell, the vanilla release is less historical. However, there have since been two expansion packs which dramatically change the game. The latest (In Nomine) in particular adds a great deal of historical events and options back into the game. EUIII with both expansion packs is easily one of the best strategy games I've ever played. I have also seen numerous comments from older EU fans on the paradox forums which indicates that while EUII is better than vanilla EUIII, EUIII with both expansion packs is better than EUII.

[JR-]

this persuades me to rip the cellophane of my copy of EUIII which i bought about 18 months ago.

[naut]

I have never played EUII, but EUIII is an excellent game. From what I can tell, the vanilla release is less historical. However, there have since been two expansion packs which dramatically change the game. The latest (In Nomine) in particular adds a great deal of historical events and options back into the game. EUIII with both expansion packs is easily one of the best strategy games I've ever played. I have also seen numerous comments from older EU fans on the paradox forums which indicates that while EUII is better than vanilla EUIII, EUIII with both expansion packs is better than EUII.

Problem is purchasing expansion packs significantly racks up the price... and being a student I'm poor. I guess I'll stick to EUII for a while yet.

[Csargo]

EUII FTW!!!

I prefer EUII over EUIII but I've only played vanilla EUIII. With the expansions for EUIII I hear it's pretty good game like CA and TC said, but like Rythmic I'm poor and can't afford the two expansions.

[TinCow]

The complete set (EU3 plus both expansion packs) can be purchased together as EU3: Complete for $27.

http://www.amazon.com/Europa-Univers.../dp/B001EK7S82

[Apoc]

The complete set (EU3 plus both expansion packs) can be purchased together as EU3: Complete for $27.

http://www.amazon.com/Europa-Univers.../dp/B001EK7S82

I just bought it from Play.com for £17.99 (free shipping).

[Jolt]

Problem is purchasing expansion packs significantly racks up the price... and being a student I'm poor. I guess I'll stick to EUII for a while yet.

We all should make a EU II Multiplayer session! :D

[TinCow]

For people looking for a serious challenge and historical accuracy in EU3, I highly recommend the Magna Mundi mod. I discovered EU3 about 6 months ago, without ever having played any Paradox game of any kind. I was very intimidated by the game at first and found it seriously challenging. I consider myself to be a very good strategy gamer and the level of challenge I met in the vanilla game was mind boggling to me even when playing a large nation, and it kept me coming back to the game. I have since gotten to grips with the game mechanics and can usually succeed even as a one-province minor now.

I downloaded Magna Mundi Platinum (the latest version, for the game with both XPs installed) about a week ago, and I feel like I've had to relearn the entire game. The game is vastly more difficult, but in many good ways. There are tons and tons of additional historical events and mechanisms that make it fascinating in its own right. The new mechanics also manage to keep nation expansion to a relatively historical level. Conquering the world is pretty much impossible, and serious expansion of any kind can be a challenge, even for a large nation like France. The end result is a game that feels much more like a real alternate history than the regular EU3 game. I very much enjoy it and urge all serious EU3 players to give it a try.

A word of warning, though. The MMP mod adds an absurd level of complexity to a game that was already one of the most complex that I've ever played. The game manual for the mod alone is 177 pages, and you actually do need to read a decent amount of it to understand the changes. I heavily discourage anyone from playing MMP until you've first become experienced with the mechanics of vanilla EU3.

[Zim]

I second TinCow's suggestion. MM is a great mod, and I believe you can still get versions for Vanilla EU3, NA, or IN.

With MM it's almost a completely different game, and still very challenging even after you get the hang of all the changes and new content. I started playing at MM Gold (for NA) and just recently downloaded the newest versions, and it seems better than ever.

I do admit I often go back to the regular game or lighter mods. I like the sandbox feel of vanilla, where anything can happen. I also get a bit of lag in the new versions, which I fear will get worse as they add new content.

That's more to my and my computer's shortcomings, though. It's a terrific mod.

[Jolt]

A word of warning, though. The MMP mod adds an absurd level of complexity to a game that was already one of the most complex that I've ever played.

...You obviously never played Victoria, nor even looked at the game. :P Victoria must make EU 3 (Never played it), look like a baby's sandbox.

[CountArach]

...You obviously never played Victoria, nor even looked at the game. :P Victoria must make EU 3 (Never played it), look like a baby's sandbox.

Yeah Victoria: Revolutions is, without a doubt, the most complex Paradox game ever made

[Ignoramus]

Yeah Victoria: Revolutions is, without a doubt, the most complex Paradox game ever made

Maybe that's why I never liked it. The fact that I didn't have a manual didn't help.

[The_Doctor]

Yeah Victoria: Revolutions is, without a doubt, the most complex game ever made

I disagree, I think that supremeruler 2020 is the most complex games ever made.

[Jolt]

Yeah Victoria: Revolutions is, without a doubt, the most complex Paradox game ever made

It makes it so satisfying to play it well and became the sole superpower (Giant Germany = Germany + Bohemia + Austria (Including Slovenia and Trieste Peninsula, which have given me a great help in my wars) + Plus large parts of France (France has basically been partitioned between me and two of my Satelites) + Every country in Central and Eastern Europe being my Satelites + the entire Africa as a giant colony except Ethiopia and Liberia) and sheer Prestigial, Industrial and Military Superpower (My African colonial army has something like 60 divisions, of which are leaded by the regular Boer divisions/I have twice as many ships (And Dreadnoughts) as the UK (I'm somewhere near the 200 ships mark), being leading producer in 98% of the manufactured goods and largest exporter by miles and miles away (I'm playing VIP, so the UK (Which no longer has Scotland or Northern England) and British India are two different nations).
I reckon that if I stopped exporting all my products to the market, the entire world economy would plummet and that would create the greatest depression ever.
It's so fun to have achieved such a domination that I can actually collapse the global markets :P
Most my population has been industrialized, since with advances in technology and the gigantic African colony, I don't need German people working in unmanufactured goods production. :p

[Jolt]

Maybe that's why I never liked it. The fact that I didn't have a manual didn't help.

This was my manual. Before, I couldn't grasp most subjects Victoria handled. After that, I basically started playing and understanding the concepts behind Victoria.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...d.php?t=305484

It's the AAR "Power by Production: A VIP:R 0.1 Prussia", and it's purposes was indeed to teach the basic concepts behind VIP, or really the game in general. Those who don't know the game and read the AAR will surely become acquainted with the degree of complexity of the game. :)

[naut]

Hehe, yeah Victoria can be pretty overwhelming at first. But, once you get the hang of it it is very rewarding.

[Meneldil]

While we're at it, anybody experiences really slow performances with EU:III?

I for some reason was able to play it for a whole afternoon (vanilla 1.3, NA 2.2 and IN 3.1). Then I tried to install MM, just to give it a shot (don't think I could have handled everything immediatly, but heh), and the game turned into a slug fest.

I got rid of MM, which did not improve anything, so I uninstalled the game and the 2 expansions, reinstalled them, and here am I, wondering why the game is so slow although it worked perfectly fine yesterday.

[Husar]

Don't know, are the mod files uninstalled properly?

I'm also playing EU3 as can be seen in the screenshot topic and I think I prefer the vanilla version.
I like expanding a bit instead of sitting around, watching my technology sliders slowly grow like grass and generally being there because whenever I move, 3 or more superpowers want to crush me, and yes, that is my situation without any mods to make it even harder...

Maybe I should return to catholicism and convert all my provinces, hmm...

[Meneldil]

Well, everything had been cleaned properly. I even launched CCleaner, just in case.

I blame this freaking Vista crap and its huge RAM requirement. I currently have 2gb on my laptop, which is enough to run NWN2 or M2TW, but apparently, EUIII is having issues :-/

Too bad, the game looks fun :-(

[Husar]

So does my laptop and it's running fine, on Vista, bought it on Steam even and have some stuff running in the background.

The only problem is I'm too bad for the game, or let's just say I learned that I wasted some 15-20 hours of playing by making myself the (almost) only protestant in a catholic world, which is like being a piece of flesh among a bunch of vultures.

[Meneldil]

Do'h found out the issue, or rather, how to fix it: for some reasons, I have to start a game and resign before being able to play properly.

So yeah, tadam, the French Kingdom is on its way to global domination.

[CountArach]

Usually deleting all the files in the map/cache folder will speed the game up a lot - it just means it takes a wile to load up at start up.

[Meneldil]

Well, it's working fine right now.

I tried a Sengoku Jidai game on MM, and promptly got my arse kicked. So back to France on vanilla.

And even there, with admitedely the easiest faction, I'm having a hard time. Got stuck in a war with Austria and Hungary, who ganged up on Bohemia (my ally), while I was slowly taking Venicia's holdings in greece. When I arrived to help the Bohemians, I had to face overwhelming armies, far away from my homeland. I negociated a separate peace with Venicia (got a few losy provinces that will serve as a basis for my futur Levant empire), and I'm now trying to liberate Bohemia from roaming austrian hordes (hopefully Hungary is also fighting with Poland and Lithuania).
My war rating (or however it's called) is at -21%, and I doubt I could get it back into the positive.

[Husar]

Very interesting.
I have given up that game with brandenburg, tried another one and then gave up again when I noticed even Anhalt can get technologies faster than me.
So I started a game with Mecklenburg and their economy is amazing, ,start out with a free trade level of 3, joined the Hanseatic League, so now I have four and managed to get five merchants into every trade center except Lübeck where my free trade bonuses don't apply, obviously.
I annexed Lüneburg in a small war and now I might want to fight Brunswick, we'll see how well that works.

[TinCow]

Well, it's working fine right now.

I tried a Sengoku Jidai game on MM, and promptly got my arse kicked. So back to France on vanilla.

And even there, with admitedely the easiest faction, I'm having a hard time. Got stuck in a war with Austria and Hungary, who ganged up on Bohemia (my ally), while I was slowly taking Venicia's holdings in greece. When I arrived to help the Bohemians, I had to face overwhelming armies, far away from my homeland. I negociated a separate peace with Venicia (got a few losy provinces that will serve as a basis for my futur Levant empire), and I'm now trying to liberate Bohemia from roaming austrian hordes (hopefully Hungary is also fighting with Poland and Lithuania).
My war rating (or however it's called) is at -21%, and I doubt I could get it back into the positive.

I recently gave the Sengoku Jidai a try as well, and I personally think it is pretty poorly done. The game is massively set against the player uniting Japan, which doesn't even make sense since it was done historically. It's not even the initial phase that's bad. That part is fun and realistic, including the Bakufu armies. It's afterwards, once you've united Japan, that you get some absolutely absurd events. One is called The Inner Lords and it is pretty much impossible. When the event fires, ALL of your provinces that have ANY core on them other than your own instantly become occupied by rebels. Not even a siege, they just gain control. These rebels spawn in small stacks, but there are so many of them that you're looking at about 80-100k of rebel troops. For comparison, I could only support about 40k by the time I got to that point, and that was AFTER reloading the game to try and beef up my military more to make a stand. I was only comfortably able to afford 20k within my budget, the 40k put me into debt. Even this wasn't enough and while I eventually started to retake my lands, it took so long that Japan collapsed in the mean time and all of my hard work uniting it evaporated. Basically, it's an absurd scenario designed just to be challenging. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who wasn't a masochist.

Strangely, I found The Knights fun and easy to play with. Despite being a OPM that's inevitably going to be facing down the Ottomans, it's not actually that bad. The special bonuses The Knights get allow them to stay afloat economically and to build up a decent navy. Grabbing some of the other Med islands early on gives enough land to build up a modest army that can be used to raid the Mamluks while they go through their numerous rebellion periods. It's not too hard to get Jerusalem and lots of the coastline in this way. I was eventually able to conquer the entire Middle East with The Knights and convert it all to Catholicism. It's a fun faction to play.

[Melvish]

As like all the late Paradox game, EUIII need all the expansion pack and patch to be a good game.
I've actually exchanged EUIII vanilla for Eastern Front II back then. Later i've re-bought EUIII collection edition (include Napoleon and In Nomine expack) and i enjoyed (a lot) the game at last. Magna Mundi mod make it even better.

[Martok]

I figured I might as well post in this thread instead of starting a new one.

To repeat a question I posed to Monk in the screenshots thread:


For those of you who've played EUIII a fair bit now, what do you think? Honestly? I'm especially curious to hear from those who have played a lot of turn-based strategy games, and how much of an adjustment it is to playing EU3 (and I suppose Paradox games in general), although I would still love to hear everyone's opinion regardless.

To give you an idea of where I'm coming from, my favorite strategy games are (in no particular order) Shogun Total War, Medieval Total War, Star Trek TNG: Birth of the Federation, Lords of the Realm II, and Galactic Civilizations 2. As you can see, I like big, epic empire-building games where I think and plan out what I want my nation/race/faction to do.

Now I've heard people say that while they are in real-time, Paradox games are played at a very measured pace just like turn-based strategy games, but I can't help but wonder just how true that is. Do they really move slow enough that a plodding old fogy like myself could still keep up? And what about EU3 specifically? I've read that it's much more accessible to players than most previous Paradox titles, but since I've never played any of their other games, I really don't have anything to compare it to.


I would really like to hear what people here think about it. As I stated in the screenshot thread, my local Best Buy has a copy of EU3 Complete for around $10.00 (IIRC), and I'm wondering if it would be worth my while to pick it up.